08-14-2008, 09:44 PM
Thank you, Albion, for your profound contribution here. There is much, I can tell, that I can learn from you. I too love to see how certain things from our past intersect into a critical understanding of our present, and even what they can say about our future. What you shared reminded me of some things I read earlier today:
12. "There is a way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
15. "The simple man believes every word; but the prudent discerns between good and evil."
16. "A wise man is cautious, and departs from evil; but the fool tampers with it confidently."
18. "Fools inherit folly; but the prudent dispense knowledge."
(Proverbs 14, Lamsa)
- and -
"The law of the wise is a fountain of life to those who depart from the snares of death."
(Proverb 13:14, Lamsa)
Sit upon these maxims for a moment, and I think they'll hit you like a train as well!
And Paul -
Thank you for sharing what you did here. I came across An Exposition a few years ago and almost got it, but never did. I had intended on probably getting myself a copy, but mostly had in mind giving one to a friend at the time, from my previous Protestant church, who had been my prayer-group leader. He chose to not limit himself when it came to seeking truth from other traditions, and his favorites were Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox. Back then, as I was myself becoming more aware of the Eastern Church's existence in history, I was looking around at everything, and when I came across the Exposition, noticing that it is an explanation of the Qurbana Qadisha, or Eucharistic Service, I immediately sprung curiosity as to how the East's perspective differed from Rome's and Greece's. I'll have to get it, now that it has come to my attention again.
Now, I have a question for you:
"and the watchers extolled Him with their praises"
"and watchers descended to minister unto Him"
"and the watchers glorified Him with their praises"
Is the Syriac that Mar Narsai is conveying here as "watchers" congruent to the Ethiopic Enochian "Watchers"?
Just curious, as these references sort of leaped out at me!
Blessings,
-Ryan
P.S. Rafa -
What Albion is pointing out is called syncretism. Trying to offer "strange fire" as an acceptable sacrifice to YHWH, if you will. This happens when little ones are born to fools who thus teach them their folly, and the procession of tradition can continue for an untold amount of time. Also, it happens in contemporary generations by those who know better, such as the sons of Korach, but think they can believe their own lies that "well, He doesn't mind, because He's a God of Love" and so-forth. People simply overlaying the templates of philosophy and/or the acceptable worship of gods, over onto the Image and/or worship of, the Perfect and Self-Disclosed YHWH. Simply put, God desires to be worshipped in a certain way, and to not be worshipped in certain ways. Otherwise, let's all go back to Mount Sinai and expect Him to have a different reaction to the Israelites when they fashioned for themselves a golden calf, and pronounced its name "YHWH", right? Albion is seeking the holiness of God; the fact that our God is Set-Apart, and not just anything pleases Him. Otherwise, sacrificing our children to Him as the ancients did to Molekh should be perfectly acceptable. And why not? See, if murder is unacceptable (6th Commandment), then so should be projecting false images of who God really is onto Him (2-3 Commandments) and thinking that it actually pleases Him. It does not. Otherwise Yeshua wouldn't have had such a cow over the "learned commandments of men", the "traditions of the elders", or the practices of those "who call themselves Jews, but really are not, but are of the synagogue of satan". Sheesh, what a literalist for Christ's sake, right?! Oh yeah, He WAS the Christ. Hmmmmm. Albion has this is mind, not the other way around. He's not saying that we can equate YHWH to a corn god because of churchianity's practices; he's saying we should be careful, as Yeshua was and taught us to do, to remove all traces of foreign god worship and false images of YHWH, from our religious worship of Him. Period, I believe. As Jeremiah says, "the Gentiles shall come to thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely the idols of falsehood which our fathers have inherited are nothing, and there is no profit in them" (Lamsa), or more commonly,
"Surely our fathers have inherited lies"
12. "There is a way which seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
15. "The simple man believes every word; but the prudent discerns between good and evil."
16. "A wise man is cautious, and departs from evil; but the fool tampers with it confidently."
18. "Fools inherit folly; but the prudent dispense knowledge."
(Proverbs 14, Lamsa)
- and -
"The law of the wise is a fountain of life to those who depart from the snares of death."
(Proverb 13:14, Lamsa)
Sit upon these maxims for a moment, and I think they'll hit you like a train as well!
And Paul -
Thank you for sharing what you did here. I came across An Exposition a few years ago and almost got it, but never did. I had intended on probably getting myself a copy, but mostly had in mind giving one to a friend at the time, from my previous Protestant church, who had been my prayer-group leader. He chose to not limit himself when it came to seeking truth from other traditions, and his favorites were Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox. Back then, as I was myself becoming more aware of the Eastern Church's existence in history, I was looking around at everything, and when I came across the Exposition, noticing that it is an explanation of the Qurbana Qadisha, or Eucharistic Service, I immediately sprung curiosity as to how the East's perspective differed from Rome's and Greece's. I'll have to get it, now that it has come to my attention again.
Now, I have a question for you:
"and the watchers extolled Him with their praises"
"and watchers descended to minister unto Him"
"and the watchers glorified Him with their praises"
Is the Syriac that Mar Narsai is conveying here as "watchers" congruent to the Ethiopic Enochian "Watchers"?
Just curious, as these references sort of leaped out at me!
Blessings,
-Ryan
P.S. Rafa -
What Albion is pointing out is called syncretism. Trying to offer "strange fire" as an acceptable sacrifice to YHWH, if you will. This happens when little ones are born to fools who thus teach them their folly, and the procession of tradition can continue for an untold amount of time. Also, it happens in contemporary generations by those who know better, such as the sons of Korach, but think they can believe their own lies that "well, He doesn't mind, because He's a God of Love" and so-forth. People simply overlaying the templates of philosophy and/or the acceptable worship of gods, over onto the Image and/or worship of, the Perfect and Self-Disclosed YHWH. Simply put, God desires to be worshipped in a certain way, and to not be worshipped in certain ways. Otherwise, let's all go back to Mount Sinai and expect Him to have a different reaction to the Israelites when they fashioned for themselves a golden calf, and pronounced its name "YHWH", right? Albion is seeking the holiness of God; the fact that our God is Set-Apart, and not just anything pleases Him. Otherwise, sacrificing our children to Him as the ancients did to Molekh should be perfectly acceptable. And why not? See, if murder is unacceptable (6th Commandment), then so should be projecting false images of who God really is onto Him (2-3 Commandments) and thinking that it actually pleases Him. It does not. Otherwise Yeshua wouldn't have had such a cow over the "learned commandments of men", the "traditions of the elders", or the practices of those "who call themselves Jews, but really are not, but are of the synagogue of satan". Sheesh, what a literalist for Christ's sake, right?! Oh yeah, He WAS the Christ. Hmmmmm. Albion has this is mind, not the other way around. He's not saying that we can equate YHWH to a corn god because of churchianity's practices; he's saying we should be careful, as Yeshua was and taught us to do, to remove all traces of foreign god worship and false images of YHWH, from our religious worship of Him. Period, I believe. As Jeremiah says, "the Gentiles shall come to thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely the idols of falsehood which our fathers have inherited are nothing, and there is no profit in them" (Lamsa), or more commonly,
"Surely our fathers have inherited lies"