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Peshitta OT
#1
Akhay,

I am currently being challenged by a Moslem from Indonesia on the following verses. Can somebody help me with verses either from the Peshitta or Septaguint?

2 Samuel 24:1 vs 1 Chronicles 21:1 Who instructed David to do the cencus? YHWH or Satan?

2 Samuel 10:18 vs 1 Chronicles 19:18 How many horses? 700 or 7000 horses? Soldiers on horses or soldiers by foot?

Shlama!

george
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#2
I can't exactly answer those questions specifically george, sorry, but I do want to make a point seeing as I am very interested in the much-neglected Peshitta Tanakh.

There is a general problem which I think is fairly clear for all to see in the co-existence of both Samuel+Kings with Chronicles. To be frank, they don't all need to be in the canon anyway, its really got to be one or the other right? After all, why repeat the same information but with it containing differences in detail?

One intriguing thing is that Kings talks of Shlomon eventually becoming an apostate before he dies and turning away to other gods away from yhwh alaha. To my recollection, correct me if I am wrong, but Chronicles doesn't actually record this. It is of course quite a serious accusation and can we certain that Shlomon did turn away from yhwh alaha after having being so committed to him in his early times?

With reference to the numbers of things issue, I don't know if these are the alaha-inspired part of the text, but may be down to human error. In any case, as I have said, a canon should include both sets of books. It really has to be one or the other, or if possible, some kind of Diatessaron style harmony perhaps [or Tri-essaron or whatever the word for 'three' is]
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#3
Akhi Gentile,

Your point is taken care. Appreciate your bringing this up. Thank you.

george
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#4
Akhi Gentile,

Why not get rid of three of the Gospels, Colossians, Psalm 52(since it repeats Psalm 14, several chapters of Isaiah , etc., etc. ?

How is it that people have no scruples about editing the canon of scripture to suit their whims ? Marcion in the second century did that with the OT, choosing the Torah only (I don't know why He included Deuteronomy, since it repeats much of Exodus ), and only Luke's Gospel (severely mutilated) for the NT.

I would fear to delete one letter of scripture from either Old or New Testament, let alone an entire book.
There are some things I don't understand and some I don't like in The Bible; I don't reject or change the canon to suit my liking. I don't have the wisdom to correct or reform that; neither do you or does anyone else.

May God baptize us with holy fear and awe before His word; familiarity breeds contempt; ask Uzzah, who touched the ark of God.

Dave B
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#5
March 16, 2004

In the Septuagint Satan is mentioned in BOTH 2 Samuel 24:1 and in Chronicles. As for horsemen, chariot riders, horses, etc., there is no conflict because different groups are mentioned in the two citations.

Otto
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#6
Akhi Otto,

Thank you for sharing with me the core answer I am looking for.

Shlama!

george
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#7
Dear Oograbe,
It's still not clear to me which version of Septuagint you are using.
I checked the Septuagint in <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apostolicbible.com">http://www.apostolicbible.com</a><!-- w -->. In 2Sam it is written the Lord and in 1Chron it is Satan in agreement with Masoretic text.

I wonder what the Peshitta OT says about this. Could someone quote me what is written in Peshitta OT ?

Shlama,
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#8
Akhi Armen,

The Apostolic Bible Greek Text is based upon the Vaticanus - Sixtine text family of the Lazariou edition printed in Greece and Aldine texts. Please revisit its PREFACE of OT in the related web site.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing this site address to me.

Shlama!

george
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#9
shlomo,

2 samuel 24:1

Again the anger of the Lord added against Isreal. And He incited against them David: And spoke to him.
Go number Isreal and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1

Also rised Satan against Isreal: and he hastened David to count Isreal.
(or it could mean:)
Also rised the adversary against Isreal: and he hastened David to count Isreal.
-------------
2 Samuel 10:18

And they fleed from in front of Isreal. And David killed from Edom seven hundred chariot riders. And four thousand
horsemans. And with them many. Also Shoobakh the General is striken and died there.

1 Chronicles 19:18

And they fleed the Edomites from in front of the sons of Isreal. And David devistated the Edomites.
Seven thousands two horses chariot riders. And four thousands (dismounted/on foot) men. And Shabookh the great
power of Hedro'zar got killed there.

hope this helps!

I belive the slight differences might be with scribal errors!

keefa-moroon
P.S. I suggest that you get ah Paul to revise these translations.
george Wrote:Akhay,

I am currently being challenged by a Moslem from Indonesia on the following verses. Can somebody help me with verses either from the Peshitta or Septaguint?

2 Samuel 24:1 vs 1 Chronicles 21:1 Who instructed David to do the cencus? YHWH or Satan?

2 Samuel 10:18 vs 1 Chronicles 19:18 How many horses? 700 or 7000 horses? Soldiers on horses or soldiers by foot?

Shlama!

george
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#10
Akhi Keefa-Moroon, shlomo!

Are you quoting all those verses from Peshitta OT? If yes, then we have to wait for the confirmation from Akhi Paul Younan on the accuracy of the translation. Is the reliability of Peshitta OT being challenged by the Septuaguint?

Akhi Paul, your turn now. Thank you.


george
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#11
shlama George,

Yes, I translated them from the Peshitta OT. I'm not an expert in the field of OT.

What do you mean by "Is the reliability of Peshitta OT being challenged by the Septuaguint?" ?

The best is to get ah Paul to confirm my translation!

poosh bashlama,
keefa-moroon
george Wrote:Akhi Keefa-Moroon, shlomo!

Are you quoting all those verses from Peshitta OT? If yes, then we have to wait for the confirmation from Akhi Paul Younan on the accuracy of the translation. Is the reliability of Peshitta OT being challenged by the Septuaguint?

Akhi Paul, your turn now. Thank you.


george
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#12
Shlama Keefa-Moroon,

Should Paul confirm your translation as correct especially with regard to "the Lord" vs "Satan" in 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1, then Peshitta OT is no different than the mainstream bible versions in this contradictory verses---and Septuagint is the only version that stands apart from the rest of the world. The next question will be: "Which bible version represents the closest translation to the "missing" original Ancient Hebrew OT? Could it be the mainstream versions?

Hope this makes our journey clearer, though in the form of more questions being raised.

george
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#13
Akhi Keefa,

Your translation is perfect. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#14
Tawdi Saggi Habr!
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->
Paul Younan Wrote:Akhi Keefa,

Your translation is perfect. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
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#15
March 30, 2004

Previously I wrote the following which information I got from the Greek Septuagint with English translation by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton published by Samuel Bagster & Sons, Ltd. in London in 1851. My edition was published by Hendrickson Publishers (1986). I assumed Brenton's English translation was correct.
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March 16, 2004

In the Septuagint Satan is mentioned in BOTH 2 Samuel 24:1 and in Chronicles. As for horsemen, chariot riders, horses, etc., there is no conflict because different groups are mentioned in the two citations
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