Name hope vs. islands law

[konway87]

Hello Ivan,
Is it possible for you to point out some examples about the differences in chronology? I am interested.

[IPOstapyuk]

Its takes too much time to type it all but the system here does not have option
to upload images.
Therefore here it is a link
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis</a><!-- m -->

[konway87]

No Problem, Ivan. Thanks a lot for posting the link. The only problem I have with the use of Hebrew in this wikipedia website is how they use Hebrew to find the meaning of names.

We all know that Old Hebrew became extinct as a "spoken" language after Babylonian siege. And the current Hebrew (very different from Old Hebrew) only originated after Bar Kokhba came to rule in 131 AD.

Not only that, Abraham and his family were Arameans who came from Ur. So using Hebrew to find the meaning of names wouldn't make any sense.

[IPOstapyuk]

When they recovered Hebrew in about 1949 year, they took the Tanach Hebrew as their base
as much as I know. Of course, modern words they invented like radio etc.
Paleo Hebrew letters as it is said were the letters of Israel. I believe they were letters of Canaan. If they found some calendar in these letters on the territory of Israel, it does not mean that these script belonged only to Israel to call it Paleo Hebrew script.

I do not believe much to official history for it is twisted.
Matthew 28:11-15 conveys, "While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, 'You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.' So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day."
It is an example of how the strong of this world twist history and make it official.

I do not know any good proof that Tanach was written in Hebrew.
There are a lot of debates of how and when the Hebrew language originated and
nobody knows for sure. Personally I prefer more to archaeology and manuscripts.

[konway87]

I am glad you point out Matthew 28:11-15. History often get twisted by people and these people misguide others through their lies.

The history of Aramaic is much more certain than Hebrew, because of its historical background and Biblical background. In Genesis 31, we see Laban calling "witness pile" as "Jegar Sahadutha" which is Aramaic.

We see Jacob calling "Galeed" which is "believed" to be Old Hebrew. But I am not sure.

In Jewish Wars Book 6 Chapter 10, Josephus pointed out that the name Melchizedek is an Aramaic name which means the righteous king. Not Hebrew. Melchizedek lived during the time of Abraham (Genesis 14).

Early Old Testament books especially Moses' five books are believed to be written in Hebrew. But like you pointed out, there are no evidences to support it.

[IPOstapyuk]

Sahaduta is Aramaic and Galeed is Old Hebrew.
Logically it is not possible to create completely new language from
grandfather Abraham to grandson Jacob.
Abraham was speaking Aramaic since he was from Padan Aram of Aramaic speaking land.
Looks like Old Hebrew was a language of the Canaanite people to whom the Hebrews adjusted and later destroyed these nations and also took their script which is officially called Paleo Hebrew script by the rulers of this world. Why I say this? Try to search any word on the Internet and on the top of first page you see Wikipedia free encyclopedia. First, your brains are to be brainwashed by it and I think almost all people take information only from this Wikipedia... .Usually immigrants take on language where they live.
I am from western Ukraine originally and our language was called Russian-Polish-Ukrainian language since all 3 languages are very similar and we absorbed elements from the every language.

[konway87]

I completely agree with you.

Another interesting thing is the idea of Moses speaking Old Hebrew. Moses grew up in Egypt and he must have known Ancient Egyptian language and also Aramaic. But Old Hebrew? That is doubtful.

[IPOstapyuk]

konway87,
Will you please look at Ceriani Veteris Testamentum
Amos. 9:12 how it is in Aramaic?
I browsed the thread and it looks like missed.
Thanks.

[konway87]

Amos 9:12 (1917 JPS Tanakh Translation of Hebrew Masoretic Text) - "That they may possess the remnant of Edom, And all the nations, upon whom My name is called, Saith the LORD that doeth this."

Amos 9:12 (Lamsa Translation of Peshitta Tanakh) - "For they shall possess the remnant of Edom, And all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the LORD who does these things."

Amos 9:12 (My attempt on translating this verse from Peshitta Tanakh) - "For they will possess the rest of Edom, and all of the people who are called over my name, says MarYah who does these things."

[IPOstapyuk]

Lamsa:
Acts 15:17 - So that the men who remain may seek after the LORD, and also all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called; so said the LORD who does all these things.

Septuagint:
Amos. 9:12 - that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon
whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, saith the Lord who does
all these things."

[konway87]

Hello Ivan,
I want to point out that the word "Amma" can mean "People" or "Gentiles" or "Nations." So all of the people can mean "all of the gentiles" or "all of the nations." So Septuagint is correct with its translation.

[IPOstapyuk]

Dr. John W. Etheridge's English Peshitta translation:
Romans 15:12 - And again, Eshaia hath said, There shall be a root of Jeshai, And he who shall arise shall be the chief of the peoples; And upon him will the Gentiles hope.

Masoretic:
Isaiah 11:10, "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Septuagint:
Isaiah 11:10, "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to rule over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust, and his rest shall be glorious."

Ceriani Veteris Testamentum:

==================================================
Dr. John W. Etheridge's English Peshitta translation:
Matthew 15:8 - This people with the lips honour me, but their heart (is) very far from me.
Matthew 15:9 - But in vain they reverence me, while they teach the doctrines of the commandments of men.

Masoretic:
Isaiah 29:13, "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:


Septuagint:
Isaiah 29:13, "And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to me with their mouth, and they honour me with their lips; but their heart is far from me: but in vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men."

Ceriani Veteris Testamentum:

[konway87]

I feel that Lamsa's translation of Isaiah 11:10 in Peshitta Tanakh seems to be somewhat influenced by KJV.

Isaiah 11:10 (Lamsa's translation of Tanakh) - "And on that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand as an ensign to peoples; to him shall the Gentiles seek; and his rest shall be glorious."

As you know, Amma can mean Gentiles or Peoples or nations. So it can mean "which shall stand as an ensign to Gentiles" like Septuagint says.

But my biggest problem is Lamsa's translation of "to him shall the Gentiles seek." I don't think "seek" should be the verb here.

Aramaic verb "Ba" (Beth, Ah) means to seek. But the root verb in Peshitta Tanakh (and in Ceriani Veteris testamentum) used for Isaiah 11:10 is "Aqb" (Ah, Qop, Beth) which has several meanings. Aqb mean "to follow closely" or "to seek out" or "to supply in the place of". So contextually, Aqb can mean "to trust" or "to hope."

I thought I should put Paul Younan's translation of Peshitta (Matthew 15:8-9)- "This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is very far from me. And they revere me in vain, while they teach the doctrines of the commandments of the sons of men."

Isaiah 29:13 (Lamsa translation of Peshitta Tanakh) - "Therefore the LORD said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their reverence toward me is taught by the precepts and doctrine of men;"

I believe the word "khaltha" can mean "fear" or "reverence/worship." But there are some differences in Peshitta Tanakh compared to Lamsa's translation.

Isaiah 29:13 (my attempt on translation of Peshitta Tanakh in Ceriani Veteris Testamentum) - "MarYah has said, the people have approached on with their mouth and with their lips, they have honored me. And their heart far from me and [so] was their reverence from me through the commandments and the doctrines of men."

It looks like the verse in Hebrew Masoretic Text causes confusion. It looks like Peshitta Tanakh and Septuagint makes much more sense with this verse (Isaiah 29:13).

[IPOstapyuk]

I know approximately that when Lamsa was translating he was sponsored by some wealthy KJV advocate and therefore the sponsor was dictating him what to do.
I personally noted that Lamsa translations are strange, very strange.
And I prefer not to interfere with Lamsa.

The main point in Masoretic text is missing that it is vain to observe the teaching and commandments of men. What are they?
I believe some of them are here:
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3412#p21556">viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3412#p21556</a><!-- l -->

[konway87]

I totally agree with you about Lamsa translation. I forgot to tell you something. I sent you a PM. I am glad you posted the link about the teachings and commandments of men. Thanks to you, I have come to realize that Masoretic text has far more errors than I imagined.

Below information was written by Aramaic scholar Yaqub. I thought I should share this.

Exodus 20:7 (look at the differences below)

Peshitta Tanakh (also in Ceriani Veteris Testamentum) - "You shall not swear falsely in the name of MarYah your Alaha, for MarYah will not consider him innocent who swears falsely in his Name... for MarYah made the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that is with them in six days, and rested on the seventh day; for that reason, Alaha blessed the seventh day and made it holy {or, sanctified it}."

LXX - (Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord thy God will not acquit him that takes his name in vain... For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, and the sea and all things in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it. - Brenton)

Hebrew Masoretic - You shall not take the name of Yahweh your God in vain; for Yahweh will not allow to go unpunished he who takes his name in vain... For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all which is in them. And he rested on the seventh day; thus, Yahweh blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.

KJV (King James Version) - Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain... For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.