Um....are we sure Maryah always = LORD?

[rungold315]

Matthew 13:27 is a PARABLE, so how in the world is it meant to be YHWH instead of "lord/sir"?

I was so confident before noticing this, and now I am a bit grieved.

[Aaron S]

I don't see where you find marya in this verse.

[Andrej]

I don't see where you find marya in this verse.

While at the topic, i never understood this particular Marya-issue. Are there now any cases of Marya being used for anything but deity or not? Is the difference one in words, or just grammar? How exactly can you define the distinction between Marya and the (supposed) grammatical variations that do not refer to YHWH? (i am asking Aaron specifically here)

[Jerry]

The one in Matthew 13:27 is (moreh), which is grammatically "singular construct". This is usually best rendered as "the-lord-of", or in the case of 13:27: "the-lord-of the-house".

In Matthew 22: 43 & 45 (mor'yah) is used in reference to David's "my lord", not in reference to YHWH. In at least two other instances, Yeshua (Jesus) is referred to as (mor'yah). Grammatically, (morayah) would logically be the plural of (mor'yah), and it is clearly non-YHWH specific.

Oddly, whether or not (mor'yah) is anthing more than "the lord", depends upon what (morah) is. For example, if (mor'yah) is simply "the lord", then (morah) would have to be the absolute form "lord". But is it?

[Andrej]

The one in Matthew 13:7 is (moreh), which is grammatically "singular construct". This is usually best rendered as "the-lord-of", or in the case of 13:7: "the-lord-of the-house".

In Matthew 22: 43 & 45 (mor'yah) is used in reference to David's "my lord", not in reference to YHWH. In at least two other instances, Yeshua (Jesus) is referred to as (mor'yah). Grammatically, (morayah) would logically be the plural of (mor'yah), and it is clearly non-YHWH specific.

Oddly, whether or not (mor'yah) is anthing more than "the lord", depends upon what (morah) is. For example, if (mor'yah) is simply "the lord", then (morah) would have to be the absolute form "lord". But is it?

Thanks, but i am even more uneducated than that. You are saying that in Mt. 13:7 Marya is used, right? Is this the only time Marya is used as "singular cunstruct"?

Matthew 22:43-45 is no issue for me, even if it uses Marya for LORD and Lord. After all, that's the message. The Lord is Jesus, Jesus is Marya, Marya is the LORD. Do you say is is clearly non-YHWH specific because of grammatical / linguistic reasons, or because you think the context makes a distinction between LORD and Lord?

[Jerry]

You are saying that in Mt. 13:7 Marya is used, right? Is this the only time Marya is used as "singular cunstruct"?

No, as Aaron alluded to earlier, (marya) is not used in 13:27, but instead (mare). (mare) is used many times, and is clearly the "singular construct", easily rendered as "the-lord-of" in all cases.

[Andrej]

You are saying that in Mt. 13:27 Marya is used, right? Is this the only time Marya is used as "singular cunstruct"?

No, as Aaron alluded to earlier, (marya) is not used in 13:27, but instead (mare). (mare) is used many times, and is clearly the "singular construct", easily rendered as "the-lord-of" in all cases.

thanks. So, is there a way of saying "the-Marya-of" in aramaic which is not "mare", like marya-e (i have no idea of aramaic, i just want to understand the issue)? Not that it would make lots of sense, i am just wondering.

[Jerry]

Matthew 22:43-45 is no issue for me, even if it uses Marya for LORD and Lord. After all, that's the message. The Lord is Jesus, Jesus is Marya, Marya is the LORD. Do you say is is clearly non-YHWH specific because of grammatical / linguistic reasons, or because you think the context makes a distinction between LORD and Lord?

For sure, YHWH, David's "my lord", and Yeshua are theologically interchangeable. So yes, my argument is that the verse makes no linguistic sense if one uses a specific designate for (marya), such as "Mar-Yah" in those 3 verses.

[Jerry]

My mistake on the verse number. I updated my posts to show "27" and not "7".

[Burning one]

Matthew 13:27 is a PARABLE, so how in the world is it meant to be YHWH instead of "lord/sir"?

I was so confident before noticing this, and now I am a bit grieved.

Shlama,


are you referring to the English reading of the AENT, which reads "Master YHWH" ?

if so, please note that this is just an error, as the Peshitta text uses D'MARE' BAYTA, and not MARYA. does anyone know if this is corrected in the other printings?


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

[Aaron S]

It reads that way in the third edition also. Pardon my brevity. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->

[Jerry]

thanks. So, is there a way of saying "the-Marya-of" in aramaic which is not "mare", like marya-e (i have no idea of aramaic, i just want to understand the issue)? Not that it would make lots of sense, i am just wondering.

Probably not, especially if one already considers (marya) to be "the lord" or something similar to that.

To change the subject a bit again, I think (marya) probably needs to be something more than "the lord" because I suspect that (mara), without the "y", is probably "the lord". So if (mara) is "the lord", then the "y" in (marya) is maybe just a grammatical device that turns "the lord" (mara) into something more definitive, as in "that the Lord".

[anthea26]

Hello Everyone,

I am a bit confused. Please help!

Lord (sir/master) = (?) in Aramaic


Thanks!

[distazo]

Hello Everyone,

I am a bit confused. Please help!

Lord (sir/master) = (?) in Aramaic


Thanks!

Lord is always 'lord' in English, but in Aramaic (and many other languages) there are inflections.
The root-word is 'mar' (eastern) or 'mor' (western) and when an Aramaic writer would indicate 'to the lord' or 'with the lord' the result is _still_ one word, however, it receives a prefix or a suffix.

Here you have all inflections of 'Mar' in Aramaic in the Peshitta.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme.php?adr=1:1843&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=150">http://www.dukhrana.com/lexicon/lexeme. ... a&size=150</a><!-- m -->%

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/_MarYah.htm">http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/_MarYah.htm</a><!-- m -->

[anthea26]

Thanks so much!