09-20-2008, 08:11 PM
Shlama Akhi Spyridon,
I am not sure what you mean by us Netzarim claiming to be the only "truly Torah observant Jews". Jews frequently and violently disagree and remain Jews, like Hillel and Shammai. Evidence is now emerging in fact that much early Talmudic evidence of high influence between Nazarenes and Rabbinics (Acts 6:7) was edited out of the official record, starting in about CE 90 and throughout the second century. I get into that in Mari and don't want to delve too deep on that now.
But since I am also a musician, let me answer this question in parody. Call it the "Gospel According to Robert Zimmerman", aka Bob Dylan:
"Ev'ry body will get stoned"
They'll stone you when you when you've taken human life
They'll stone you for sleeping with another's wife
They'll stone you when you're cursing in His Name
Or giving children up to Molech's flames
Now I would not be too upset and moan.
Ev'ry body will get stoned!
They'll stone you if you curse your Mom and Dad
They'll stone you for taking all your neighbor has
They'll stone you if you dare to lie in court
Or persecute a stranger just for sport
Now I would not be too upset and moan.
Ev'rybody will get stoned!
They'll stone you if you commune with the dead
They'll stone you for the blasphemies you've said
They'll stone you for having incest on your cot
Or bringing to shame YHWH's great Shabbat
Now I would not get too upset and moan.
Every'body will get stoned!
Now my friends you need to understand, not wail
For Scripture demands equal weights and scales
For so many things Torah says we'll die
Except that for the Grace of Yah go I
So if you never sinned then you are alone
And only then can you cast that stone!
****
In other words, the concept of death being the result of sin is eternal, but the method of that death has shifted. Israel used to execute her own but now YHWH is our executioner according to His will and YHWH has declared the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4). This is still true now, since the Temple is no longer standing. Over teh breadth of Scripture though YHWH has employed quite a few methods to do this:
1) Expel Adam and Eve from Paradise and away from the Tree of Life.
2) Wipe out the wicked with a flood, but save Noah and family.
3) Cut back the length of human life to 120 years.
4) Warnings from the beginning of Genesis to Exodus 20 on conduct that causes life and death.
5) After Golden Calf, purify away from that wicked generation, wander in wilderness for 40 years.
6) Set up nation of Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
7) Set up Judges for Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> Set up Monarchy for Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
9) Warn divided kingdom with exhortations from prophets.
10) Destroy the Northern Kingdom, but promise to re-establish back through David.
11) Destroy the Southern Kingdom, but bring back after 70 years.
13) Send last Tanakh prophets to re-confirm message and re-constitute worship in Second Temple, but again with warnings.
14) Send Messiah (finally)!
15) Send Apostles, with warnings/blessings, etc.
16) Get their message BACK.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
I am not sure what you mean by us Netzarim claiming to be the only "truly Torah observant Jews". Jews frequently and violently disagree and remain Jews, like Hillel and Shammai. Evidence is now emerging in fact that much early Talmudic evidence of high influence between Nazarenes and Rabbinics (Acts 6:7) was edited out of the official record, starting in about CE 90 and throughout the second century. I get into that in Mari and don't want to delve too deep on that now.
But since I am also a musician, let me answer this question in parody. Call it the "Gospel According to Robert Zimmerman", aka Bob Dylan:
"Ev'ry body will get stoned"
They'll stone you when you when you've taken human life
They'll stone you for sleeping with another's wife
They'll stone you when you're cursing in His Name
Or giving children up to Molech's flames
Now I would not be too upset and moan.
Ev'ry body will get stoned!
They'll stone you if you curse your Mom and Dad
They'll stone you for taking all your neighbor has
They'll stone you if you dare to lie in court
Or persecute a stranger just for sport
Now I would not be too upset and moan.
Ev'rybody will get stoned!
They'll stone you if you commune with the dead
They'll stone you for the blasphemies you've said
They'll stone you for having incest on your cot
Or bringing to shame YHWH's great Shabbat
Now I would not get too upset and moan.
Every'body will get stoned!
Now my friends you need to understand, not wail
For Scripture demands equal weights and scales
For so many things Torah says we'll die
Except that for the Grace of Yah go I
So if you never sinned then you are alone
And only then can you cast that stone!
****
In other words, the concept of death being the result of sin is eternal, but the method of that death has shifted. Israel used to execute her own but now YHWH is our executioner according to His will and YHWH has declared the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4). This is still true now, since the Temple is no longer standing. Over teh breadth of Scripture though YHWH has employed quite a few methods to do this:
1) Expel Adam and Eve from Paradise and away from the Tree of Life.
2) Wipe out the wicked with a flood, but save Noah and family.
3) Cut back the length of human life to 120 years.
4) Warnings from the beginning of Genesis to Exodus 20 on conduct that causes life and death.
5) After Golden Calf, purify away from that wicked generation, wander in wilderness for 40 years.
6) Set up nation of Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
7) Set up Judges for Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> Set up Monarchy for Israel with Torah/blessings/warnings.
9) Warn divided kingdom with exhortations from prophets.
10) Destroy the Northern Kingdom, but promise to re-establish back through David.
11) Destroy the Southern Kingdom, but bring back after 70 years.
13) Send last Tanakh prophets to re-confirm message and re-constitute worship in Second Temple, but again with warnings.
14) Send Messiah (finally)!
15) Send Apostles, with warnings/blessings, etc.
16) Get their message BACK.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth