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Conference of the Birds

Quote:Sura 9.29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah [Allah is not the God of the Bible],

Interesting you should say that, Shimoun. Let's take a short look at an translation of the New Testament in Arabic.

[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]

"In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]

"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

[John 3:16 - English Bible - King James Version]

"For God so loved the world, that . . . "

[John 3:16 - Arabic transliteration]

"Li-annhu haakadha ahabba Allahu al-'Aalama hataa badhala . . . "

[Luke 1:30 - English Bible - King James Version]

" . . . Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God."

Luke 1:30 - Arabic transliteration]

" . . . Laa takhaafee, yaa Maryam, li-annaki qad wajadti ni'amat(an) i'nda Allahi."

[Luke 3:38 - English Bible - New King James Version]

"the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

[Luke 3:38 - Arabic transliteration]

"bini Anoosha, bini Sheeti, bini Aaadama, abni Allahi."

These transliterations are from 'al-Kit??b al-Muqadis' or "the Holy Book" of 15-20 million Arab Christians in the Middle East.

An Arab Christian hosts a website called "al-bushra" and comments on the name Allah at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m -->

Quote:...nor in the latter day [atheists, polytheists, humanists and animists], nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited [this includes all people who do not comply with food restrictions and general laws of Islam], nor follow the religion of truth [that means ???Islam??? and applies to all non-Muslim people], out of those who have been given the Book [Includes Jews and Christians especially], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority [submission tax called Jizzya for those who do not believe in Muhammad and Allah] and they are in a state of subjection [humiliate them in subjection i.e. until they feel the only path for them is to become Muslims to avoid this over taxation and humiliation daily].

This verse is given against those polytheists with whom the Muslims, under the leadership of the Prophet (pbuh), had entered into an agreement and who had disregarded this agreement and aided others against the Muslims. Obviously, these qualities cannot be generalized on all the polytheists of the world. It referred to the pagan Quraish and their consultants who aided them, such as the Jews of Khybar who broke its treaties with the Muslim community in its time of need in favor of pagans.

Regarding Christians, there were no Christians in either Mecca or Medina. According to Richard Bell: spite of traditions to the effect that the picture of Jesus was found on one of the pillars of Ka'aba, there is no good evidence of any seats of Christianity in the Hijaz or in the near neighbourhood of Makkah or even of Madina. Richard Bell, The Origin of Islam in its Christian Environment, 1925; 1968 (Reprinted), The Gunning Lectures Edinburgh University, London: Frank Cass and Company Limited, p.42

According to Dr. Nabih Aqel, a Professor of Arabic and Islamic History, University of Damascus, states in his book Tarikh al-Arab al-Qadim:

The big difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Christianity unlike Judaism didn't have any bases in Hijaz, Christianity was an external source of enlightenment echoed in Hijaz either by missionary activities form Ethiopia, Syria and Iraq or from Alheerah's Christian centres; dair Hind al-Kubra [the order of Hind al-Kubra] - Um Amro al-Mundhir [the order of Um Amro] - Dair Hind al-Sugra [the order of Hind al-Sugra]) or from some of the scattered churches in Bahrain, al-Yamamah and Yemen. Nab??h Aqel, Tar??kh al-cArab al-Qad??m, 1983 (Third Edition), D??r al-Fikr, Beirut, p. 305

Muhammad and his companions, however, fled from Arabia to Ethiopia from the pagan Quraish to the Christian Ethiopians for sanctuary.

About them, the Qu'ran says:

5:82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

83. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.

Consider the verse preceding the one you've quoted:

???Will you not fight against those who have broken their oaths and have conspired to banush the messenger? They were the first to attack you.??? (Al-Taubah 9: 12)

Please refrain from twisting Qu'ranic verses out of historical context. That's the first step to terrorism.

Quote:"The Last Hour would not come till the Muslims fight against the Jews, and the Muslims will kill them until the Jews hide themselves behind the stones and trees, and the stones and trees would speak up saying: "O Muslim! O slave of Allah! There is a Jew hiding behind me; come and kill him." The _Ghardaq_ tree would speak, for it is the tree of the Jews." (Muhammad the prophet of Islam, narrated by Abu Hurraira).

This Hadith has a weak chain of transmission. Why even quote it?

Quote:My response:
You would have to prove Allah is God first and Moses would not submit to a monad. Would you please care to provide proof that Allah exists? How may I know this deity that claims to be like Yahweh?

When Eeshoa referred to God as 'Alaha' in the Peshitta, was he invoking another god besides Yahweh? Or did he invoke Him in his native tongue, Galilean Aramaic?

The Assyrian Christians, who speak in a dialect of Aramaic closest to Isa, say:

ALAAHAA REKHMAANEL'E - - - - God is merciful
YA ALAAH - - - - Oh God
ALAAHAA MINAAKH (F) / MINOOKH (M) - - - - God be with you
MINTAA MIN ALAH / MINTAA MIN MAARRYAA - - - - with thanks to God/the lord / with obligation

46. And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice and said, "Eil, Eil, l'mana sh'wik-thani?"* (Victor Alexander translation)

Jesus did not refer to God as 'Yahweh' even once in the four Gospels. Even in the Gospels' depiction of his supposed crucifixion, he did not cry out to 'Yahweh.' He cried out to God in Aramaic, his principal language.

The Qu'ran answers you, however:

17:110. Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."

Quote:My response:
Adam was not born from a virgin, Adam cannot be the Son of God since he is a created being and Yeshua is eternal and uncreated.

Al-'Imran 3:59

Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before All??h is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

Quote:Sixth point, you said:
To say that Paradise is restricted to Jews and Christians is egoism. To say that no true Prophet can arise outside of 'the sacred borders' of Israel is egosim. Your nation was only charged to bear light for all nations, which was the original Torah (no longer in your possession), not to claim a divine right to His Kingdom.

my reply:
This is the way Yahweh set it and (1) Yeshua was the one who died on the cross to bear the sins of many, it may sound egotistical to you or whatever but Yahweh requires a sacrfice for your sins and in Islam you have no salvation since their is only good deeds which are nothing but menstural rags before a holy our holy father Yahweh.

5:19. (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

Quote:7th point
The covenant that was made with Abraham is an eternal covenant not temporal so the Hebrews have full rights to their land.

God said to Abraham, "I will give you and your descendents after you the land in which you are now foreigners, all the land of Canaan, as a permanent possession." (Genesis 17:

???Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, to you have I
given it, as I spoke unto Moses. From the wilderness, and this Lebanon,
even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the
Hittites, and unto the Great Sea [Mediterraneansea] toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border.??? (Joshua1:3,4; Re: Deuteronomy 11:24)

???This is the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah
according to their families.??? ???Ashdod, its towns and its villages; Gaza, its
towns and its villages; unto the Brook of Egypt, the Great Sea being the
border thereof.??? (Joshua15:20,47)

8th Point:

For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling. (Psalm 132:13)

God of Israel Yahweh is a Zionist Himself, so if you hate Zionists then you hate Him also and live under a curse from which you cannot free yourself unless you come to Yeshua the Nazarene.

62:6. Say: "O ye that stand on Judaism! If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!"

All praises be to Allah, Lord of all the Worlds
???Do not give up, for that is ignorance and not according to the rules of this art... Like the lover, you cannot hope to achieve success without infinite perseverance.???

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