11-15-2004, 03:32 PM
Shlama John,
Some people talk of love and they talk of love;
Others simply lay down their lives for their friends .
Were Canada and India liberated without war ? Even if they were, which I do not grant, certainly in the case of Canada, what have they done to liberate others ? Who wants to be like India ?
Even Canada does nothing to liberate other nations.
You conveniently overlook the many millions we liberated in Europe and Japan. Apparently that means nothing to you; perhaps it was evil to you, because it was done by violence.
I would rather face a terrorist on the street with a friend at my side whose love for his friends and country would not flinch at shooting the terrorist than with a man who wanted to show his love for the terrorist.
You wrote:
I have a friend whose son is fighting in Falujah; I have a nephew who is stationed in Baghdad. As we have liberated Afghanistan, so are we liberating Iraq. Afghanistan has already had free elections. The people turned out in droves, even though it was dangerous to do. Did you not know this, or is it too much of a paradigm shift for your world view to admit that war can have such positive and liberating results, almost overnight ?
I have read from an Assyrian American pastor who
had relatives in Iraq that his prolonged visit there before the war proved to him that the people there were almost unanimous in wanting America to fight Saddam and free them from his "security".
Who ever said love precludes war ? Sometimes love demands war.Where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus say to stand by and pray while your friends are being killed ?
The sermon on the mount says to love your enemies, as God loves His enemies. God sometimes kills His enemies.
"There is a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build up, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."
The sermon on the mount teaches an individual how to treat other individuals who personally affront him. "Turn the other cheek", "Bless them that curse you", "Do good to them that hate you."
I have the right and prerogative to be merciful to him that hates me.I have no right to do so to him that hates my country and all that live in it.Neither have you the right to forgive and "love" those who hate and persecute me. This is a gross misapplication of the sermon on the mount.
No man has the right to forgive another nation for its crimes and hate. No group of government officials has that right. God may do so, and God alone.
A man who stands by and watches another murder his friend and does not all in his power to stop it , even to the point of killing the attacker, cannot speak of his great love for others.
Can you have love without hate for those who seek to kill those you love ?
Jesus preached love; He also preached hate. You apparently are in denial of this, as are many.
Can you have hot without cold, good without evil, light without darkness ?
Of course not !
There is no peace without war. When has peace ever been won without war ? In a world where evil exists, war is inevitable and necessary to preserve the good from attack.
Where do terrorists and dictators simply go away by human decree or negotiation ? Do you deny the effectiveness and good of defeating Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, & Hirohito by war ? Millions of people were liberated and given democratic governments in many countries as a result.
Bin Ladin addressed the USA in his video.
The "states" are The United States. No other nation is addressed in this video.
You wrote:
So apparently you agree with Bin Ladin. We are the oppressors; He is the freedom fighter, liberating the nations.
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Iraq will have free elections in a couple months, as did Afghanistan just recently. Two democracies will have been established in The Arab world by the evil oppressors -The USA ,once again imposing freedom on unwilling peoples by imperialistic force.
The "Freedom fighters of Al Kaida" will oppose those democratic governments, because they know that true freedom comes by the oppressive dictatorship and hate of Osama and Saddam.
Another word from The Christ (Whom you have not distinguished from The OT Jehovah Who commanded war on many occassions):
Now if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then doth his kingdom stand?
And Jesus called them, and said to them, by similitudes: How can Satan cast out Satan?
Satan has been cast out of two countries. The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by Satan's power. Jesus responded "By whom do your disciples cast them out?"
The critics of Christ's works have a lot to say; they have no power and can do nothing.
God has established the United States of America as a beacon of liberty, hope and opportunity to the world and every human spirit aspires to that liberty, hope and opportunity.
There is an enemy to liberty. He has possessed many to oppose our country. We have used our power for freedom. We never possessed Mexico nor oppressed Mexico, nor any other nation. If you want to point to the indian nations, I would say that all peoples have benefited from our presence and even our abuses against the blacks has been turned to a blessing for their descendants.
I don't see too many blacks opting for the jungles of Africa today, from whence they were taken as slaves.
We are not a perfect nation. Israel was never a perfect nation. I believe we are a chosen nation, as was Israel and still is.
We have a goodly heritage:
Psalms 144:
That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:
13 That our garners may be full, affording all manner of store: that our sheep may bring forth thousands and ten thousands in our streets:
14 That our oxen may be strong to labour; that there be no breaking in, nor going out; that there be no complaining in our streets.
15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.
Psalms 147:
Praise the LORD, O Jerusalem; praise thy God, O Zion.
13 For he hath strengthened the bars of thy gates; he hath blessed thy children within thee.
14 He maketh peace in thy borders, and filleth thee with the finest of the wheat.
15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.
16 He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.
17 He casteth forth his ice like morsels: who can stand before his cold?
18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.
19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
If ever God has chosen and blessed any nation, God has chosen and blessed The United States of America. He has done so, not because we are better than other people. He has done so because our forefathers honored Him and received His truth concerning equality before God and the natural yearning of the human spirit for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
As long as we honor those things and seek to instill these in our people and hold them out to others under oppression, helping all we can to attain to liberty, we shall prosper and prevail over
the enemy of mankind.
Yes, the day will come "when they shall learn war no more." Now, evil still exists in the world. Do not, however, confuse a Bin Ladin with a George Bush, nor the desires and motives of the two. They are worlds apart.
Do the angels follow the sermon on the mount ?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Apparently they do not interpret it as do you.
And every war in Heaven is matched by a war on earth, do not doubt it.
And Heaven wins.
I believe in the ultimate triumph of good over evil, and am a universalist, I don't know about you.
Well, enough for now.
Blessings,
Dave
Some people talk of love and they talk of love;
Others simply lay down their lives for their friends .
Were Canada and India liberated without war ? Even if they were, which I do not grant, certainly in the case of Canada, what have they done to liberate others ? Who wants to be like India ?
Even Canada does nothing to liberate other nations.
You conveniently overlook the many millions we liberated in Europe and Japan. Apparently that means nothing to you; perhaps it was evil to you, because it was done by violence.
I would rather face a terrorist on the street with a friend at my side whose love for his friends and country would not flinch at shooting the terrorist than with a man who wanted to show his love for the terrorist.
You wrote:
Quote:I have a friend presently stationed in Iraq, and he says that the people prefer security to freedom. Saddam gave them security. Most Iraqi's are not willing to participate in the upcoming elections because they are afraid that it will make them the targets of insurgents. If it is not safe to vote, then it is not safe to call it a democracy.
I have a friend whose son is fighting in Falujah; I have a nephew who is stationed in Baghdad. As we have liberated Afghanistan, so are we liberating Iraq. Afghanistan has already had free elections. The people turned out in droves, even though it was dangerous to do. Did you not know this, or is it too much of a paradigm shift for your world view to admit that war can have such positive and liberating results, almost overnight ?
I have read from an Assyrian American pastor who
had relatives in Iraq that his prolonged visit there before the war proved to him that the people there were almost unanimous in wanting America to fight Saddam and free them from his "security".
Who ever said love precludes war ? Sometimes love demands war.Where in the sermon on the mount does Jesus say to stand by and pray while your friends are being killed ?
The sermon on the mount says to love your enemies, as God loves His enemies. God sometimes kills His enemies.
"There is a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build up, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."
The sermon on the mount teaches an individual how to treat other individuals who personally affront him. "Turn the other cheek", "Bless them that curse you", "Do good to them that hate you."
I have the right and prerogative to be merciful to him that hates me.I have no right to do so to him that hates my country and all that live in it.Neither have you the right to forgive and "love" those who hate and persecute me. This is a gross misapplication of the sermon on the mount.
No man has the right to forgive another nation for its crimes and hate. No group of government officials has that right. God may do so, and God alone.
A man who stands by and watches another murder his friend and does not all in his power to stop it , even to the point of killing the attacker, cannot speak of his great love for others.
Can you have love without hate for those who seek to kill those you love ?
Jesus preached love; He also preached hate. You apparently are in denial of this, as are many.
Can you have hot without cold, good without evil, light without darkness ?
Of course not !
There is no peace without war. When has peace ever been won without war ? In a world where evil exists, war is inevitable and necessary to preserve the good from attack.
Where do terrorists and dictators simply go away by human decree or negotiation ? Do you deny the effectiveness and good of defeating Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, & Hirohito by war ? Millions of people were liberated and given democratic governments in many countries as a result.
Bin Ladin addressed the USA in his video.
Quote:People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.
The "states" are The United States. No other nation is addressed in this video.
You wrote:
Quote:UBL claims that his initiative to attack America came about due to his horror & outrage over American military involvement in aggression against Palestine & Lebanon, which he experienced as a threat to the autonomy and security of Muslim nations.
So apparently you agree with Bin Ladin. We are the oppressors; He is the freedom fighter, liberating the nations.
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Iraq will have free elections in a couple months, as did Afghanistan just recently. Two democracies will have been established in The Arab world by the evil oppressors -The USA ,once again imposing freedom on unwilling peoples by imperialistic force.
The "Freedom fighters of Al Kaida" will oppose those democratic governments, because they know that true freedom comes by the oppressive dictatorship and hate of Osama and Saddam.
Another word from The Christ (Whom you have not distinguished from The OT Jehovah Who commanded war on many occassions):
Now if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then doth his kingdom stand?
And Jesus called them, and said to them, by similitudes: How can Satan cast out Satan?
Satan has been cast out of two countries. The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by Satan's power. Jesus responded "By whom do your disciples cast them out?"
The critics of Christ's works have a lot to say; they have no power and can do nothing.
God has established the United States of America as a beacon of liberty, hope and opportunity to the world and every human spirit aspires to that liberty, hope and opportunity.
There is an enemy to liberty. He has possessed many to oppose our country. We have used our power for freedom. We never possessed Mexico nor oppressed Mexico, nor any other nation. If you want to point to the indian nations, I would say that all peoples have benefited from our presence and even our abuses against the blacks has been turned to a blessing for their descendants.
I don't see too many blacks opting for the jungles of Africa today, from whence they were taken as slaves.
We are not a perfect nation. Israel was never a perfect nation. I believe we are a chosen nation, as was Israel and still is.
We have a goodly heritage:
Psalms 144:
That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:
13 That our garners may be full, affording all manner of store: that our sheep may bring forth thousands and ten thousands in our streets:
14 That our oxen may be strong to labour; that there be no breaking in, nor going out; that there be no complaining in our streets.
15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.
Psalms 147:
Praise the LORD, O Jerusalem; praise thy God, O Zion.
13 For he hath strengthened the bars of thy gates; he hath blessed thy children within thee.
14 He maketh peace in thy borders, and filleth thee with the finest of the wheat.
15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.
16 He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.
17 He casteth forth his ice like morsels: who can stand before his cold?
18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.
19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
If ever God has chosen and blessed any nation, God has chosen and blessed The United States of America. He has done so, not because we are better than other people. He has done so because our forefathers honored Him and received His truth concerning equality before God and the natural yearning of the human spirit for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
As long as we honor those things and seek to instill these in our people and hold them out to others under oppression, helping all we can to attain to liberty, we shall prosper and prevail over
the enemy of mankind.
Yes, the day will come "when they shall learn war no more." Now, evil still exists in the world. Do not, however, confuse a Bin Ladin with a George Bush, nor the desires and motives of the two. They are worlds apart.
Do the angels follow the sermon on the mount ?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Apparently they do not interpret it as do you.
And every war in Heaven is matched by a war on earth, do not doubt it.
And Heaven wins.
I believe in the ultimate triumph of good over evil, and am a universalist, I don't know about you.
Well, enough for now.
Blessings,
Dave
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I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com