"MarYah deception" ???

[Burning one]

In response to Jeremy's statement:

you can see that MARYA was used to translate a few different terms in the Peshitta AN"K. most were indeed speaking of the Creator YHWH

Simply incorrect! Every single reference is indeed speaking of The Creator YHWH. "YAH" & "Ha Adon" are references to YHWH in every place listed. "Adonim" and "Marye" in Isaiah 19:4 are plural forms (Lords,Masters) and referring to The King of Egypt. "Marye", the plural form is not "Marya". It is the plural of "Mara", which is a title, not the Sacred Name. Even in Psalm 114:7, the only place listed that does not have "YAH" or "YHWH" in the corresponding Hebrew text, we do not know that the Hebrew manuscript that was being translated did not have YHWH in that place in the text when the Peshitta Psalms were translated. Regardless, "Marya" has not been shown to identify anyone but YHWH in any of the more than six thousand and six hundred places in which it occurs in the Peshitta OT.

The Peshitta OT unanimously and unequivocally demonstrates that "Marya" refers to YHWH, and to YHWH alone. This is not true of the Greek "Kurios".
Therefore, there is no case to be made for the NT usage of Marya to represent anyone but YHWH, and so when the Name identifies Yeshua Meshikha, it identifies Him as YHWH, which happens at least thirty two times in the 27 Aramaic books of the NT.

Shlama b'Shema

Dave Bauscher

Shlama Dave,


thanks for clarifying your position. i stand almost totally corrected (i'm still somewhat reserved, but sincerely moved closer to what you suggest), but i do have to wonder, however, about Isaiah 19:4, as it is speaking of the singular king, which you also mention, yet it uses a plural form in the Hebrew, and as you suggest, in the Aramaic. but we also have the witness of Malachi 1:6 wherein Yah uses ADONEEM in reference to Himself, and if i'm reading the AN"K right, there is a variant even there which has MARYA/MARYE or MARA. obviously, ADONEEM makes no sense to be taken literally plural in that context, when only Yah is speaking, so perhaps the contested passage from Isaiah 19:4 could be understood in the same manner, as well. every translation i've ever seen of that verse renders it in the singular, as well. just a possibility, sense there seems to be some leeway.

and to add to the witness of Psalm 114:7, it is NOT the only place listed without a corresponding "YAH" or "YAHWEH," as Malachi showed -- there is also Joshua 3:11, which reads ADOWN in the Hebrew, and MARYA MAREH in the AN"K, as well as the aforementioned Malachi 3:1, again, not to be overlooked from my previous post, which reads HaADOWN in the Hebrew, and d'MARYA in the AN"K, which appears to be some scribal dynamics at work there, since it somewhat changes the intent of the Hebrew text.
i find myself being cautious in saying that a translation is correct over the original language when there is no variant to suggest otherwise, only the witness of the translation. of course, that is only my opinion, but i don't see resorting to such an argument as really helpful in any way, since it is an argument that cannot be substantiated. since the AN"K seems to align even with the original readings before the tikkuney hasoferim took place, then any discrepancies outside of the tikkuney and extant variants makes it seem like those discrepancies are just that, and not preservations of an earlier reading -- see what i mean? but again, just my thoughts...

in this whole MARYA debacle, i've also run across two instances where the Peshitta AN"K chose not to render YHWH in the translation at all, like in Isaiah 1:24, which reads HaADOWN YHWH in the Hebrew, but MARA MARUWTHA in the Aramaic, and the exact same situation is present in 3:1. we're dealing with a translation, so attention must be paid to the details (i speak of course to myself, as well -- who has not at present devoted all that much time to the AN"K -- most has been towards the Peshitta NT). anyhow, it is significant to me that two places (perhaps there are more, as again, i haven't done any comprehensive study) omit the Name entirely in the translation.

more to think about!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy