09-29-2008, 01:35 AM
Shlama all--
Speaking for myself, "God" and "Godhead" are two different things. I have no doubt that while most Christians do not name YHWH (a problem to be sure) they do MEAN YHWH when they talk about "The Father". I believe that YHWH, while He would prefer to be properly spoken to, does in fact love us even when we are wrong, and Christians and Nazarenes alike can certainly make mistakes, albeit different ones that can sometimes be equally serious. I have said many times that ALL FALL SHORT and YHWH is NO RESPECTER of persons, Jewish, Nazarene, Gentile, whatever.
I think what Albion is talking about is rather a distinction some make about how Western Christianity is historically linked with, to put it nicely, the polytheism that preceded it in many countries. And to be fair, Israel has also at times been horribly influenced by polytheists around her, and such rebukes are commonly recorded. It is an uncomfortable fact that we may have an 8th C BCE artifact in Hebrew that talks about "YHWH and His Asherah" although some scholars dispute that reading because the inscription is incomplete.
So from where I sit, both Jews and Christians, if we go back far enough, have had this kind of bad influence, but for both the answer is the same. "Godhead" in terms of trinitarian belief is, as Christina pointed out, the cause of a lot of consternation in the Nazarene community. But that doesn't mean that I personally believe Christians are the same as pagans, at least not exactly. I do think we Nazarenes have a valid point regarding certain pagan syncretism from the fourth century, but that is another story. But no--we worship the same Elohim and in fact that NT properly and repeatedly says that YHWH is ONE and has Y'shua quote the Shema. As Ya'akov says, "You believe in one Elohim YOU DO WELL."
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Speaking for myself, "God" and "Godhead" are two different things. I have no doubt that while most Christians do not name YHWH (a problem to be sure) they do MEAN YHWH when they talk about "The Father". I believe that YHWH, while He would prefer to be properly spoken to, does in fact love us even when we are wrong, and Christians and Nazarenes alike can certainly make mistakes, albeit different ones that can sometimes be equally serious. I have said many times that ALL FALL SHORT and YHWH is NO RESPECTER of persons, Jewish, Nazarene, Gentile, whatever.
I think what Albion is talking about is rather a distinction some make about how Western Christianity is historically linked with, to put it nicely, the polytheism that preceded it in many countries. And to be fair, Israel has also at times been horribly influenced by polytheists around her, and such rebukes are commonly recorded. It is an uncomfortable fact that we may have an 8th C BCE artifact in Hebrew that talks about "YHWH and His Asherah" although some scholars dispute that reading because the inscription is incomplete.
So from where I sit, both Jews and Christians, if we go back far enough, have had this kind of bad influence, but for both the answer is the same. "Godhead" in terms of trinitarian belief is, as Christina pointed out, the cause of a lot of consternation in the Nazarene community. But that doesn't mean that I personally believe Christians are the same as pagans, at least not exactly. I do think we Nazarenes have a valid point regarding certain pagan syncretism from the fourth century, but that is another story. But no--we worship the same Elohim and in fact that NT properly and repeatedly says that YHWH is ONE and has Y'shua quote the Shema. As Ya'akov says, "You believe in one Elohim YOU DO WELL."
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth