05-10-2008, 02:14 PM
But every mitswa tells us how to do one or the other. Name any mitswa that I cannot ascribe either to "love God" or "love your neighbor as yourself." These are the two foundational mitswoth, and the rest are merely midrashim on them.
You carefully translated this "the written law." I would contend that he refers to Torah SheBa'al Peh. As you yourself have pointed out, he claims to have been fully observant, and yet he violated the mitswoth by murdering the Talmidim HaDerech. One cannot fulfill the Torah and be filled with hate, because it is written, do not bear a grudge, and according to R. Yeshu'ah's Drash on "thou shalt not murder" to even hate causes one to be guilty of murder according to proper halacha.
Yet, also in Romans 10, "For Moses describeth the righteousness, which is by the law, thus: Whoever shall do these things, shall live by them. But the righteousness which is by faith, saith thus: Thou shalt not say in thy heart, Who ascendeth to heaven, and bringeth Messiah down? Or, Who descendeth to the abyss of the grave, and bringeth up Messiah from the place of the dead? But what saith it ? The thing is near to thy mouth, and to thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we proclaim." Rom. 10:5-8 (Murdock)
Thus we see that the righteousness of the Torah is the righteousness of faith, since Moshe wrote these words of the Torah in Deut. 30. Sha'ul clearly shows that the two are one and the same.
We know that Sha'ul was a P'rushi. And we know, from R. Yeshu'ah, that the P'rushim violate(d) the Torah SheBa'al K'tiv by their traditions. Is this not what the Rabbi told us?
When a young man came to the Rabbi and asked what he must do to be saved, what did the Rabbi reply? He told him of works and of faith. What did Ya'akov HaTsaddiq tell us? "Can faith vivify him?" (Murdock) We know that faith alone, without works of the Torah, is dead.
God asks that we be righteous in Yeshu'ah. He is our righteousness. And so we must follow in His footsteps, doing the Torah as he did himself.
The Nevi'im have told us what YHWH requires of us: to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. This is what He requires: justice, which you know is also translated righteousness.
I know, it is also written that our righteousness is as filthy rags. That is why we must trust in Yeshu'ah, that is why we must not only walk out the letter of the Torah, but we must walk in the spirit of the Torah, which is to love God and love our neighbor. Righteousness without love is unrighteousness. Righteousness without faith is unrighteousness. But likewise faith without righteousness is merely faithlessness.
And yet, isn't true that it is written that we should "believe"? So God is not interested in our beliefs? Is it not written that those who do it will live in it, so is He not interested in our practices? I do not disagree with you. He is interested in so much more. But it would be an error to say that he is not at all interested in our religion, in the most literal sense of the word.
Chaveri, I had to decide a couple of years ago if I would read the Scriptures like a Jew, or like a Xian. I came to the conclusion that the only way that made sense was to read them like a Jew. I assume the Torah is the basis. The Nevi'im and K'tuvim are commentaries on it. Because he lines up with these, I believe that R. Yeshu'ah was, and is, Mashiakh. A Xian, whether he admits it or not, assumes that Yeshua/Je*us is the Messiah/Chr*st, and then agrees with the TN"K so long as it agrees with his understanding of the Messiah. When it does not, he reinterprets it.
Since I read it this way, I believe that the Torah must be observed. I believe, first and foremost, in the Torah, and what is written in it. Then I believe that R. Yeshu'ah is the master interpreter, the living Torah, the Rabbi, the Mashiakh. To try to convince me that Sha'ul, or Yeshu'ah, were opposed to observance, or taught that it is unnecessary, is merely to try to convince me that Sha'ul and Yeshu'ah were not men of God.
Shabbath shalom,
Dawid
You carefully translated this "the written law." I would contend that he refers to Torah SheBa'al Peh. As you yourself have pointed out, he claims to have been fully observant, and yet he violated the mitswoth by murdering the Talmidim HaDerech. One cannot fulfill the Torah and be filled with hate, because it is written, do not bear a grudge, and according to R. Yeshu'ah's Drash on "thou shalt not murder" to even hate causes one to be guilty of murder according to proper halacha.
Yet, also in Romans 10, "For Moses describeth the righteousness, which is by the law, thus: Whoever shall do these things, shall live by them. But the righteousness which is by faith, saith thus: Thou shalt not say in thy heart, Who ascendeth to heaven, and bringeth Messiah down? Or, Who descendeth to the abyss of the grave, and bringeth up Messiah from the place of the dead? But what saith it ? The thing is near to thy mouth, and to thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we proclaim." Rom. 10:5-8 (Murdock)
Thus we see that the righteousness of the Torah is the righteousness of faith, since Moshe wrote these words of the Torah in Deut. 30. Sha'ul clearly shows that the two are one and the same.
We know that Sha'ul was a P'rushi. And we know, from R. Yeshu'ah, that the P'rushim violate(d) the Torah SheBa'al K'tiv by their traditions. Is this not what the Rabbi told us?
When a young man came to the Rabbi and asked what he must do to be saved, what did the Rabbi reply? He told him of works and of faith. What did Ya'akov HaTsaddiq tell us? "Can faith vivify him?" (Murdock) We know that faith alone, without works of the Torah, is dead.
God asks that we be righteous in Yeshu'ah. He is our righteousness. And so we must follow in His footsteps, doing the Torah as he did himself.
The Nevi'im have told us what YHWH requires of us: to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. This is what He requires: justice, which you know is also translated righteousness.
I know, it is also written that our righteousness is as filthy rags. That is why we must trust in Yeshu'ah, that is why we must not only walk out the letter of the Torah, but we must walk in the spirit of the Torah, which is to love God and love our neighbor. Righteousness without love is unrighteousness. Righteousness without faith is unrighteousness. But likewise faith without righteousness is merely faithlessness.
And yet, isn't true that it is written that we should "believe"? So God is not interested in our beliefs? Is it not written that those who do it will live in it, so is He not interested in our practices? I do not disagree with you. He is interested in so much more. But it would be an error to say that he is not at all interested in our religion, in the most literal sense of the word.
Chaveri, I had to decide a couple of years ago if I would read the Scriptures like a Jew, or like a Xian. I came to the conclusion that the only way that made sense was to read them like a Jew. I assume the Torah is the basis. The Nevi'im and K'tuvim are commentaries on it. Because he lines up with these, I believe that R. Yeshu'ah was, and is, Mashiakh. A Xian, whether he admits it or not, assumes that Yeshua/Je*us is the Messiah/Chr*st, and then agrees with the TN"K so long as it agrees with his understanding of the Messiah. When it does not, he reinterprets it.
Since I read it this way, I believe that the Torah must be observed. I believe, first and foremost, in the Torah, and what is written in it. Then I believe that R. Yeshu'ah is the master interpreter, the living Torah, the Rabbi, the Mashiakh. To try to convince me that Sha'ul, or Yeshu'ah, were opposed to observance, or taught that it is unnecessary, is merely to try to convince me that Sha'ul and Yeshu'ah were not men of God.
Shabbath shalom,
Dawid