08-17-2004, 08:13 AM
bar_khela Wrote:Dear Paul Younan & members of the forum,
Muslim is as much of a proper noun as Christian and Middle East. Capitalize it. But I do not understand your motive. Did you need to remind the active participants of this forum that I was Muslim because it would remind them of the awful images that they are accustomed to on television? Did you need them to unify against me to support your bias?
Your writing method is Pathos.
If you check my PMs to you, you will notice that I capitalized the word "Muslim." I purposely didn't capitalize it because I responded to your post not because of the reason that you are a Muslim but because I was trying to explain what was going on between you and me in PMs.
I didn't ask them to unify against you. Your post specifically mentioned "Members of the forum." So, it is right for me to explain it to Paul and the members of forum as well as to the reason why you are not happy with my post and trying to portray me as very demanding, unappreciative, and inconsiderate of Paul's health.
bar_khela Wrote:Evidence. Evidence is the major artery of this forum. We prove Greek primacists wrong with our murderous breakthroughs, do we not? You openly claimed that Muslims persecuted Christians for 1400 years. That is why I privately messaged you and asked you to prove your claim before me, if you were indeed a man. You, oh-so convienantly, went through an entire bundle of Hadiths, which were alleged sayings and actions attributed to Muhammad two centuries later, then you expected that you had me by the forelock.
You should have known better.
You submitted the following Hadith:
KITAB AL-JIHAD WA'L-SIYAR
(THE BOOK OF JIHAD AND EXPEDITION)
Book 19, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Then I told you that was later attributed to the prophet Muhammad and what history contests to are two very interestingly different things.
I proved it!
I sent you four links of English translations of his treaties to Christians, swearing protection and freedom of worship as there is no compulsion in religion.
I posted that Hadith without making any comment to you because in general Muslims believe in the Hadith. Moreover, that Hadith is from Sahih Muslim that is considered to be genuine by many Muslims of Sunni sect. I didn't know that you are an anti-Hadith (fully or partially) guy.
That Hadith is also an inspiration for people like Osama bin Laden to expel the Jews and Christians from "Arab peninsula." So your problem is with that Hadith, not with me as I am not a Muslim. It is better for you to argue with Islamic ulama at International Islamic University in Malaysia that host that Hadith and ask them to take it out if it is false than for you to argue and debate with me as I am not a Muslim and what I can see about Islam is from what your 'holy books' teach <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/019_smt.html#019_4366">http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/musl ... l#019_4366</a><!-- m -->
It is better for you to educate your fellow Muslims about the web sites that you showed me than for you to argue with me, because it will help people like Osama bin Laden to be more tolerant towards non-Muslims. As long as this Hadith and similar Hadiths are propagated by Muslim web sites, Ulama, Mullahs, and Imams, there will be no peace in Israel, because expelling non-Muslims will be the inspiration for whoever believe in that Hadith.
But how many Muslims out there value web sites or non-Muslims sources about Muhammad more than the Hadith that has been accepted by the majority of Muslims as authoriatative for centuries?
<!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
bar_khela Wrote:But what was your rebuttal? You said that if I cannot accept the words of my prophet, then conversing with me is a waste of time. That was a ungraceful copeout that left me angry.
I asked you, subsequently, to give me another source outside of the Hadiths. You did not comply. You only started to say that this is not the place to spread my religion. Another copeout.
So yes, I told you to "shut up." You obviously can't have a serious debate about Islam. You can only vomit silly hearsay from the television tube.[/b]
I didn't challenge you for a debate in the first place. You PMed me. I posted the Hadith without any comment and you are angry with me for saying "If you can't even accept the words of your own 'prophet' then I do not want to waste my time talking to you about Islam in a forum that is dedicated to the studies of the Bible." That is why I recommended you 2 forums where you can debate with someone who share your interests.
I am a busy man. I prefer to do my works and make full use of my time in studying the Bible and early church writers than get involved in a debate with people like you. It is my time. So, it is up to me to choose how I should spend my time. You should not be angry. In fact, when I visited Muslim web sites or Jewish forums I am not angry with what they said about Christianity or took offense, because they can have their own point of views just like I am having my own views about certain matters. I do not tell them to shut up. So, I expect the same from others like you who are a 'free thinker'. When you visit a Christian based web sites, do not easily get offended by terms that are contrary to what you believe (e.g. Son of God, etc).
For your info, I don't have a television at home for the past 13 years except a very small Pocket TV that I bought to watch FIFA World Cup 1998 that I never used since. The last time I sat down daily watching TV was during FIFA World cup 2002 at my brother's place. Before that, it was during September 11, 2001. I grew up watching Islamic TV programmes from Malaysia and listening to sermons in the mosques and mixing with a lot of Muslims. I even considered Islam when I was a teen, because I came from Buddhist background and I was seeking the purpose of life back then.
When I read Hadith, I really don't like the character of Muhammad as portrayed in the Hadith. If you yourself do not like the Hadith then you should not be offended by a non Muslim comments about your 'prophet' that is based on the Hadith. I don't know the reason why you reject the Hadith, but as for me one of the reasons why I reject Islam is because of the character of Muhammad as portrayed in the Hadith. So, if you a Muslim feel uncomfortable with the Hadith, then don't blame a non Muslim for disliking Muhammad as portrayed in the Hadith.
bar_khela Wrote:and the best performance goes to....
I did not threaten to have you banned. I told you that if you were to type one more dirty little baseless comment that we'd have to settle this before Paul. Do not misquote me.
Check your PM again. This is what you posted to me :
But one more dirty comment and we will settle this before Paul. You've seen what happened to Chris, did you not?
Both of us know that Chris (drmlanc) is banned after he argued with you and Dave. From what you have posted to me, I can interpret it to mean that you wanted me to be banned as well. I am glad you didn't <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
Paul and others have nothing to do with our disputes (which shouldn't be one in the first place). Why would you want to trouble Paul with personal disputes?
If you have problems with my comments regarding that Hadith, it is better for you to ask Islamic web sites to take it down for giving false information about Islam than arguing with me, because I am not a Muslim and that Hadith could mislead a lot of Muslims into hating Jews and Christians.
bar_khela Wrote:His post seems to try to put me in bad light as someone who is very demanding, unappreciative, and inconsiderate of Paul's health.
You are. I still remember the thread. Paul told us that he has a serious condition in which only 50 percent of survival during surgery can be known. What did you say? You told him that he has to survive for the continuation of the project! Impossible! Paul is a father and a husband. Paul is more important to me that these proofs.
You made this kind of accusation, because you don't like me. Why are you so judgmental about what is inside of another person's heart? Why do you want to find fault with me?
This is what I posted on Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:47 am, exactly 1 hour 12 minutes after Paul announced that he is diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea :
Dan Gan Wrote:Dear Akhi Paul,
We will surely pray for you akhi. You are the most important person online running the most important web site doing the most important project to benefit mankind.
When I first discovered about this site a few years back, I am always worried about your health because this web site has to continue even after all of us have departed from this world.
When I first discovered about the existence of Peshitta many years ago, buying the domain name <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- w --> ever came across my mind. I am glad that this domain is run by a worthy person like you Paul Younan.
Thanks a lot for giving us Peshitta for free.
Be strong and courageous.
Source: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=564&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0">viewtopic.php?t=564&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0</a><!-- l -->
I am glad that Paul Younan is still alive and kicking. <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: --> Without Peshitta.org, I would never know that Paul Younan exists. So to me, he is the most important person online because his works benefit mankind (that is to those people like me and those people who love the Bible).
bar_khela Wrote:I don't hold grudges. Life's too short. But I will tear your argument apart each and every time you choose to lie about my faith.
Why even mention such a project during this time? Offer a prayer instead.
I didn't lie about your faith. The Hadith I quoted is taken from International Islamic University of Malaysia. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/019_smt.html#019_4366">http://www2.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/musl ... l#019_4366</a><!-- m -->
You have problems with your fellow Muslims who believe in that Hadith not me, but you failed to realize it. Instead of picking up fights with me, you should "tear your argument apart each and every time you choose to lie about my faith" towards those Islamic web sites that offer free Hadith for Muslims to read, and also post your views in Islamic forums to let them know.
I am glad that you do not hold grudges. And I agree with you that life is too short. That is why I don't like to debate about Islam with you through PM or email (as requested by you) as I prefer to spend my time wisely. If you like to debate and argue about Islam then you should try :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://faithfreedom.org/forum/">http://faithfreedom.org/forum/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/">http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/</a><!-- m -->
where you can find people with similar interest as you.
As you do not hold grudges, please do not hijack my thread and change it into another unrelated topic that will make Paul delete it later. I do not wish to see that happened to this thread or any of the thread I might create in the future. The purpose of this thread is to ask about Peshitta MP3 online whether from Peshitta.org itself or from another sites, and to share with my fellow Christians about the web site that I found offering FREE audio Modern Assyrian Gospel of Mark for downloading and also FREE audio Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament) for downloading.
So, if you have any other personal issues with me, please use PM instead of posting it here in the public and making accusations in the public that I am very demanding, unappreciative and inconsiderate of Paul's health.
Dear Paul Younan and fellow members,
I am so sorry to have wasted your time and resources with personal arguments between bar_khela and me.
Let us put this matter to rest and concentrate on Peshitta and Aramaic.
Peace to all.
Dan Gan