05-20-2009, 02:04 AM
Shlama Akhi Dawid,
Apology accepted.
I propose to help your rage through understanding, reaching out and listening. I can think of no better way to dispel the arrogance charge than by not being arrogant--hope that doesn't sound facetious or simplistic because it is not meant that way. I also intend to try and explain things better so we don't get into this rut again. We should agree to disagree and let the Ruach judge it.
I will repent of downplaying your scholarship. That was not worthy of me. I was wrong to do so. You did provide facts that I didn't agree with and I should not have attacked your methodology. The Ruach has been heavy on me to admit this regardless of your response. I am sorry for that.
In return, I need you to understand that it was totally non-helpful to me to even allow for the suggestion (right or wrong, but that's how I took it) that I should feel better that I only plagiarized instead of infringed on copyright, or that such fine semantics really make a difference in what is an extremely painful and difficult arena of accusation. A tiny theoretical middle ground I did NOT need. I understand you NOW brother, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me to understand you THEN.
You see, I think Dawid you only looked at what YOU SAID in isolation. I don't think you took into account how what OTHERS said aroused my passion before you chimed in with your distinctions which, by that time, were enough to push me over the edge. That's an explanation, not an excuse. My behavior was wrong, but so was yours.
Perhaps some day, when you do your Siddur and many other great things for the body of Messiah, you will understand how I felt when something that was many years in the making got attacked as if it was nothing. Or when people who told me in writing here and elsewhere that they hated my theology and my lineage seemed to get the benefit of the doubt while every little thing that could be held over my head was strained through a fine sieve.
In that context, I was in attack mode and I took the worst possible interpreation, especially when you said as you did, "I am not taking/supporting Mr. Roth's side" which to my mind gave creedence to excessively personal attacks that were more about theology and less about the facts on the ground. Once that got in my head the rest didn't matter to me.
As I said, maybe this view seems foreign to you now because you haven't walked in my shoes. I promise you though when you have for like 10 years or so with great works of your own that so many love, even if you don't respond as I did, you will understand my response in context better if this happens to you. For the present though, please accept my apology and let's move on. Life is too short and our brotherhood too small to allow this kind of divisiveness.
I respect your scholarship--and I hope you do the same with me. Let us agree to disagree on the remainder Akhi because to vent those differences as we did here is not edifying to the body of Messiah. Let's put name calling and base accusations ON BOTH SIDES into the grave where they belong.
Finally, I still say you should re-think the greeting situation. It may be out of your comfort zone but you are commanded to salute with peace the brethren. There are a dozen references to that command in Scripture, but I will leave that be moving forward, as I hope you will leave your bad feelings aside moving forward as well. We have said our piece. Now let us have peace.
Agreed?
Apology accepted.
I propose to help your rage through understanding, reaching out and listening. I can think of no better way to dispel the arrogance charge than by not being arrogant--hope that doesn't sound facetious or simplistic because it is not meant that way. I also intend to try and explain things better so we don't get into this rut again. We should agree to disagree and let the Ruach judge it.
I will repent of downplaying your scholarship. That was not worthy of me. I was wrong to do so. You did provide facts that I didn't agree with and I should not have attacked your methodology. The Ruach has been heavy on me to admit this regardless of your response. I am sorry for that.
In return, I need you to understand that it was totally non-helpful to me to even allow for the suggestion (right or wrong, but that's how I took it) that I should feel better that I only plagiarized instead of infringed on copyright, or that such fine semantics really make a difference in what is an extremely painful and difficult arena of accusation. A tiny theoretical middle ground I did NOT need. I understand you NOW brother, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me to understand you THEN.
You see, I think Dawid you only looked at what YOU SAID in isolation. I don't think you took into account how what OTHERS said aroused my passion before you chimed in with your distinctions which, by that time, were enough to push me over the edge. That's an explanation, not an excuse. My behavior was wrong, but so was yours.
Perhaps some day, when you do your Siddur and many other great things for the body of Messiah, you will understand how I felt when something that was many years in the making got attacked as if it was nothing. Or when people who told me in writing here and elsewhere that they hated my theology and my lineage seemed to get the benefit of the doubt while every little thing that could be held over my head was strained through a fine sieve.
In that context, I was in attack mode and I took the worst possible interpreation, especially when you said as you did, "I am not taking/supporting Mr. Roth's side" which to my mind gave creedence to excessively personal attacks that were more about theology and less about the facts on the ground. Once that got in my head the rest didn't matter to me.
As I said, maybe this view seems foreign to you now because you haven't walked in my shoes. I promise you though when you have for like 10 years or so with great works of your own that so many love, even if you don't respond as I did, you will understand my response in context better if this happens to you. For the present though, please accept my apology and let's move on. Life is too short and our brotherhood too small to allow this kind of divisiveness.
I respect your scholarship--and I hope you do the same with me. Let us agree to disagree on the remainder Akhi because to vent those differences as we did here is not edifying to the body of Messiah. Let's put name calling and base accusations ON BOTH SIDES into the grave where they belong.
Finally, I still say you should re-think the greeting situation. It may be out of your comfort zone but you are commanded to salute with peace the brethren. There are a dozen references to that command in Scripture, but I will leave that be moving forward, as I hope you will leave your bad feelings aside moving forward as well. We have said our piece. Now let us have peace.
Agreed?
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Andrew Gabriel Roth