11-07-2008, 04:21 AM
Shlama once again, Mike,
the passage you are looking for is in Leviticus 15, specifically verses 19-30.
the woman, at the end of her unusual flow of blood, was required to bring a sacrifice of two birds, which lines up with the passage out of Luke, as well, when the days of purification were ended. Yoseph was unclean simply because he was in contact with her -- touching anything she touched would pass the unclean status on to him, and i think it would be almost impossible to attend to a post-partem mother without acquiring this status.
but to pay careful attention to the above-referenced passage, nowhere are we told the man himself was to offer the sacrifice of the birds. therefore, the sacrifice of the birds DOES NOT INCLUDE YOSEPH at all.
keeping this in mind, and going back to the previously proposed problematic passage out of the Peshitta (oy -- say that 3 times fast), the text in Luke 2:22-24 doesn't state that Yoseph made any sacrifice at all. paying carefuly attention to the text merely says they went up only AFTER the days of their purification were ended. see the resolution in the text itself?
Yoseph could not approach the Temple area while unclean from Miryam, and neither of course could Miryam go while in the blood of her purification. they BOTH had to meet the specific requirements, and that is all that the text is really telling us. it doesn't say that Yoseph sacrificed the birds. we know the sacrifice was made only for Miryam because only she could make that sacrifice. but they both had to be pure in order to go up for it.
i hope i am making myself clear here. if you pay close attention to the text of the Peshitta, there is no conflict at all. all fears of a Greek primacy fall away, and you can safely embrace once again the Aramaic authority of Scripture! woo-hoo!!
as for your atonement issue -- i would offer this explanation as well to help reconcile the Peshitta's reading even further: atonement means merely "to cover." that is all that it means. 2000 years of tradition and exposition of Scripture have brought many different flavors of interpretation to the word that do not necessarily convey the Scriptural meaning. KAPHAR is the Hebrew term used in Scripture, and you will find it all over the place in "sinless" instances. for example, the ark of Noah was to be "atoned" in a pitch-like substance. the ark of the covenant was to be "atoned" in gold, and so on and so forth...
now, the problem of sin DOES need covering, and that is what the sacrifices worked towards. but more importantly, the product of sin is what the sacrifices atoned for: DEATH. now stick with me for a moment, and hopefully this will make sense -- in all instances of uncleanness or impurity found in the Scripture, the connecting factor is a DEATH taking place. be it a person actually dying and so reaping the wages of sin, or be it the issue of seed where only 1 (if that, even) actually makes it to the goal and thus continues to live and the millions of the rest die, or the passing of the egg during the woman's monthly flow (and just as well the idea that the life is in the blood) -- each occurrance of the attaining-of or the imparting-of impurity/uncleanness deals with death in some form/level taking place. thus the atonement that must be made is not necessarily a personal/moral sin that the individual has willfully performed against Alaha, but rather the simple fact that as people living in a fallen world, we are subject to the wages of death all around us, and at times, even IN US. as the Creator is pure and set-apart, and truly LIFE Himself, all manner of death associated with man must be atoned-for/covered. thus the explanation for the sacrifices of the birds/lamb.
it is in this sense, i firmly believe, that the sacrifice of the birds was atoning for Miryam, and truly, for all women down through time who had to obey this specific command.
so to wrap it up, i am not seeing any problem at all with the sacrifices made OR the atonement that was secured by making them. i do hope what i've offered makes some sort of sense. <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->
Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
the passage you are looking for is in Leviticus 15, specifically verses 19-30.
the woman, at the end of her unusual flow of blood, was required to bring a sacrifice of two birds, which lines up with the passage out of Luke, as well, when the days of purification were ended. Yoseph was unclean simply because he was in contact with her -- touching anything she touched would pass the unclean status on to him, and i think it would be almost impossible to attend to a post-partem mother without acquiring this status.
but to pay careful attention to the above-referenced passage, nowhere are we told the man himself was to offer the sacrifice of the birds. therefore, the sacrifice of the birds DOES NOT INCLUDE YOSEPH at all.
keeping this in mind, and going back to the previously proposed problematic passage out of the Peshitta (oy -- say that 3 times fast), the text in Luke 2:22-24 doesn't state that Yoseph made any sacrifice at all. paying carefuly attention to the text merely says they went up only AFTER the days of their purification were ended. see the resolution in the text itself?
Yoseph could not approach the Temple area while unclean from Miryam, and neither of course could Miryam go while in the blood of her purification. they BOTH had to meet the specific requirements, and that is all that the text is really telling us. it doesn't say that Yoseph sacrificed the birds. we know the sacrifice was made only for Miryam because only she could make that sacrifice. but they both had to be pure in order to go up for it.
i hope i am making myself clear here. if you pay close attention to the text of the Peshitta, there is no conflict at all. all fears of a Greek primacy fall away, and you can safely embrace once again the Aramaic authority of Scripture! woo-hoo!!
as for your atonement issue -- i would offer this explanation as well to help reconcile the Peshitta's reading even further: atonement means merely "to cover." that is all that it means. 2000 years of tradition and exposition of Scripture have brought many different flavors of interpretation to the word that do not necessarily convey the Scriptural meaning. KAPHAR is the Hebrew term used in Scripture, and you will find it all over the place in "sinless" instances. for example, the ark of Noah was to be "atoned" in a pitch-like substance. the ark of the covenant was to be "atoned" in gold, and so on and so forth...
now, the problem of sin DOES need covering, and that is what the sacrifices worked towards. but more importantly, the product of sin is what the sacrifices atoned for: DEATH. now stick with me for a moment, and hopefully this will make sense -- in all instances of uncleanness or impurity found in the Scripture, the connecting factor is a DEATH taking place. be it a person actually dying and so reaping the wages of sin, or be it the issue of seed where only 1 (if that, even) actually makes it to the goal and thus continues to live and the millions of the rest die, or the passing of the egg during the woman's monthly flow (and just as well the idea that the life is in the blood) -- each occurrance of the attaining-of or the imparting-of impurity/uncleanness deals with death in some form/level taking place. thus the atonement that must be made is not necessarily a personal/moral sin that the individual has willfully performed against Alaha, but rather the simple fact that as people living in a fallen world, we are subject to the wages of death all around us, and at times, even IN US. as the Creator is pure and set-apart, and truly LIFE Himself, all manner of death associated with man must be atoned-for/covered. thus the explanation for the sacrifices of the birds/lamb.
it is in this sense, i firmly believe, that the sacrifice of the birds was atoning for Miryam, and truly, for all women down through time who had to obey this specific command.
so to wrap it up, i am not seeing any problem at all with the sacrifices made OR the atonement that was secured by making them. i do hope what i've offered makes some sort of sense. <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy