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Check out my small Peshitta website and big book
You gotta be kidding me, this is your fix to what Dave asked for?

Quote:The Hebrew OT used for much codes work is of the Massoretic version. We all know that this is most definitely not the original Old Testament, as it was produced by members of a different religion (Judaism) to that of the Old Testament, after the New Testament was written, and is full of contradictions. Yet it still has codes. Evidently, even a corrupted form of an original will have codes; always keep that in mind. Of course, since the codes are obviously the work of something superhuman, Satan surely comes to mind ??? who are we to say that the codes are of our God? But many codes involve the names of God. It seems unlikely that Satan would encode any of his works with God???s names or that God would even allow it.

Now Dave is working with something superhuman, namely satan. I'm sure Dave wanted you to affiliate him with satan Chris, good job pal!

Dave you should be ashamed of yourself for even considering this would be fruitful. You know better.
Sorry Akhi, but I have to agree here with David and Dan. I read past that paragraph too quickly. No doubt the issue of OT textual transmission is complex and also no doubt that the Samaritan Pentateuch, Dead Sea Scrolls, LXX and P-Tanakh each in their own ways help unravel a very knotty puzzle. But to imply that the MT is the product of Satan--even in passing--no Akhi, that's irresponsible.

Let me explain this clearly as I can. The editor of the Jewish Publication Society, in their 1999 Hebrew English Tanakh, acknowledge in their preface that a perfectly transmitted OT as the MT is impossible. Instead, they take the idea that theyhave produced a DEFENSIBLE text from the best ancient sources that are evident to a large degree in the MT's attempts to standardize them. So but for a few odd lines (like Cain's statemetn to Abel not being recorded in MT although it is clearly supposed to be there and is added by the LXX itself being derived from pre MT Hebrew) I believe we have a very strong case for many original readings well preserved in the Pentateuch, where the codes themselves derive.

At least, I don't recall Drosnin and company pulling codes out fromt he Prophets and the Writings, but perhaps Akhi Dave can correct me there if I am wrong.

Now granted, Psalm 22:16 is a later and egregious reading, but then again MT Isaiah is extremely well attested to in the Dead Sea Scrolls. These are problems, no question. But you know something, we are told about these EVEN IN TANAKH and NT. Daniel is told to seal up a book until the time of the end, and Isaiah 29 talks about a sealed book in a language he can't read, probably Aramaic to my mind, it being before the exile. Rav Shaul talks about us seeing through a glass darkly, and that tomorrow we will know face to face. Even the talmidim of Y'shua did not have the Scriptures opened to them until AFTER they followed him for three years (Luke 24). As a result of that opening with the Holy Spirit, THE ENTIRE PESHITTA NT IS CODED!

But, as for the OT, YHWH encoded just the first five books (as far as I am aware) which are EXTREMELY WELL PRESERVED IN THE MT, and backed by readings in P-Tanakh, DSS and LXX. They all, in their ways, testify to the same truth, and therefore, to the extent that the MT version of Torah is well preserved, we should expect it to be encoded, and it is. Or are you going to say the books of Moses were not really around in essentially that form prior to the Middle Ages? Here's a clue, don't try it, becaue it is not true. The encodings in the first five books are YHWH's way of telling us to listen to the rest of His word, but to also know that Messiah is the one who will ultimately bring the best understanding of that, both through his Gospel message and his iminent return.

Don't slander the MT. It has problems, but it should never be called evil.

LO TOV! (no good) <!-- sSleepy --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sleepy.gif" alt="Sleepy" title="Sleepy" /><!-- sSleepy -->
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Andrew, I did not say the Mas is a product of Satan! I am making a point about the divinity of the Bible in general. i.e. it has codes, suggesting Divine influence. But of God or Satan? - honest question. Since codes involve names of God, it is likely of God. No way do I call Mas evil or any part of the Bible from the Devil. Methinks you fall too easily for the tricks of my attackers.
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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
I do now agree that the MT is a fine text. You just have to keep in mind that it is a product of human deduction. Verse/Chapter numbering, vowels, punctuation, etc were all not in the original text. One also has to keep in mind that the traditional MT canon is soley the work of Jewish authors with the exception of modern texts. (Such as the BHS.) The manuscriptive varients chosen will reflect this fact and will have bias according to their particular tradition. The "dividing line" is that we have more evidence supporting our translations; coming from many different manuscripts.

I used to hold this against them until I realized just how much we do the same thing in our texts. I truely wish a completely unified version could be released including the biblical manuscripts from the dead sea scrolls etc.

Westminster Theological Seminary is working with an international group of Jewish scholars to come up with the next critical edition of the Hebrew bible "Biblia Hebraica Quinta".

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If you are gonna actually do justice for Dave here, then don't associate satan and his work in the same sentence. No matter what you were attempting to emulate through that, you have to remember that a good percentage of people glaze over things at times rather than try to truley understand the meaning. Dave's work is completely different from what people are used to, so let it speak for itself, people will figure it out. Your opinions are clouding things.

In this instance, mister Roth and Rob are completely correct. All one has to do is buy the book "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and read it from front to cover. All the versions are put together in comparison with the dead sea scrolls. Anyone is able to easily discern that all the versions have some sort of scrible error. At the same time, you will NOT see any plot to discredit the coming messiah in the MT or any other assumptions that the superstitious crowd always believes. There are no complete sentences missing or misconstrued sentences structures that make the text say something completely different. All that sort of nonsense is complete superstition.

The dead sea scrolls have been dated from before Jesus walked the earth so they are a very, very, very, accurate source for comparison. What's the final verdict? The text was handed down to us with the normal amount of scribal errors that one would expect from over a 1,000 years. That is with any of the versions, Samaritan, LXX, MT, no matter what.

I've pointed this out months ago to you. I can attack you if I want, but at this moment, I'm not. I do laugh at you and your complete disregard for mainstream Christianity, your manifestation doctrine, you attack on your brethren on your website, so forth and so on, but I do have a very serious side to me, and I'm emulating that at the moment.

Thanks for the comments and understanding concerning my position on the Hebrew Bible. Here is a great link to check out .

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It is the entire photographed Great Isaiah scroll (QA) on a site by Fred P Miller. He knows his Hebrew very well and has a line by line commentary and translation of this complete Dead Sea scroll of Isaiah dated 100 BC.
I have not seen anything quite like this site. I purchased his CD about a year and a half ago with this scroll and others on it - so much material I don't care to list it here, but it costs only $19.95.

He shows, not simply making claims, that this 2100 yr. old scroll is practically identical to the Massoretic text in its readings, though the orthography(spelling and grammar) is more Aramaic than traditional Palestinian Hebrew. The other Isaiah scroll QB contains 75% of Isaiah and seems to be identical in readings to QA.

This is a must- research site . I highly recommend the CD purchase.

I think we have generally been sold a bill of goods by so called scholars
concerning the Hebrew OT. Very few have actually done the work of looking at real manuscripts. They simply take second third and fourth hand information and never do the hard work of research themselves, and then they claim to be scholars and pontificate on matters they know nothing about.

We certainly have seen this with regard to The Greek and Aramaic NT's.
I am not surprised that the same has been done with regard the The Hebrew text. The Greek Orthodox Church, for instance, holds the Septuagint as the inspired Old Testament and the Hebrew as a corruption !

Talk about Greek primacy! That is Greek supremacy and idolatry. The western churces have been infected with this attitude and have buried the truth under centuries of ignorance , prejudice , lies and bigotry. Some of it is pure hate for the truth and the Spirit of God.

Hopefully this tide is turning. I pray so, and want to be one who helps stem it and turn back the flood of lies.

"When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of Jehovah shall lift up a standard against him." Isaiah 59:19

Let's go get him , guys.

Yours valiant for the Truth,

Dave B.
I have just given my <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- m --> website a makeover.

After seeing the success of it, especially with the high Google rankings, it is my responsibility to have a good image. The site looked quite dodgy before as it was temporary. But it keeps growing so I made a proper navigation system with the bar on the left and the Babelfish etc Looks nice <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

I also changed some more controversial things like changing the COE article and removing the "Satan-codes" comment which is FAR too cerebral a point for most people to get.
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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
Shlama, akhi Chris,
I saw Your renewed website and it looks nice.
You have done great input into Peshitta primacy, the current Your topic deserves to be in the Aramaic Primacy Forum section, not in the General one.
If You put special disclamer about the doctrines that they are not Peshitta's point of view but Your own point of view, this website, I believe, will be better. Personally, I plan to join Your forum if You not mind, akhi.
You have good experience in this forum, based on this You can improve Your forum. Personally, I believe that expressing own opinions about something or somebody is not as big insult as ignoring a sincere person asking important to him (her) question.
God bless Your website, in the allmighty name of Jesus.
Take care.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fk^rwbw 0ml4 [/font]
Thanks Mr. Ostapyuk,

I'm glad you like the site. As for the doctrinal section which is very short by the way, I do indeed have a disclaimer that many may prefer to skip that section. When I have a forum, I should definitely invite you of course. I don't have one yet but the wheels are in motion. I have already discussion with other like-minded sites to be "combined" in using my forum. Also in discussion with a major Christian forum site for two-way traffic. Hopefully it all goes good. For now though things are already good. I cannot do all I plan for yet. Too busy with working and studying - and in a very demanding course.

If you have any suggestions to add to the site let me know. I plan to have the Peshitta in Aramaic on there soon as well. Maybe even Paul's Interlinear, so that in case Paul's site goes bust for some reason, there will be some sort of a mirror and his work will still be out there on a Peshitta-minded website.


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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
"I believe that expressing own opinions about something or somebody is not as big insult as ignoring a sincere person asking important to him (her) question."

Indeed, one cannot hate someone based on different beliefs, as no two people will have the exact same beliefs. As long as people don't force people to accept their beliefs and keep bringing up the issues that "you are wrong and I am right, the Bible says THIS" etc, people should get along fine.

I am very good friends with some Muslims and one of my best best friend is atheist, another is catholic. Why? We don't ram our beliefs down the others' throat <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
August 25, 2004

The book "Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?" contains a section entitled "Doctrinal Insights from the Peshitta" that detracts from the main question and represents the biased theological views of the author. It should be deleted to avoid distraction from the theme given by the book's title.

It would be easy for me to use the Peshitta and historical facts to rebute the author's theoological views, but that is not the purpose of this forum. Let's stick to the promoting Peshitta primacy.

"biased theological views"

No, you must read it further to see it. It uses the linguistics. It is FACT that Hebrews 4:9 talks of Sabbath observance. Look up the words and roots in the lexica. It is FACT that MarYah refers to Jesus as being divine as it is never used for anyone but God. It is FACT that the Greek says "catamite" which doesn't include all homoxesuals while Peshitta uses words that condemn homosexuality in general. It is FACT that the Greek uses two words for "love" unjustly. It is FACT that "namusa" can refer to Torah and law.

The sections on each of these 5 topics are very small, because instead of going into my beliefs, I talk about the FACTS. These facts I have mentioned are true, look up the words yourself, you have a decent lexicon right here on this website.

The point of the section (which is quite small as it deals with facts) is to show how the Peshitta can talk about certain doctrinal issues. For instance, can we all be homosexuals? Peshitta says no.
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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
I also plan to add a 6th issue "Is Jesus really the capstone". We know capstone is never in the Bible, yet very prominent in ancient Egyptian religions. And the NIV etc say capstone, while Peshitta says "chief of the corner(s?) of the building". This is yet another doctrinally-based issue where I only need to mention the facts - the very meanings of the words.

I agree, extra shouldn't be added. Just the FACTS.

And if people cannot even handle the simple facts, I have a diclaimer at the start of that chapter.


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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
Do keep in mind that also in that section I do not give commands, I just talk of the facts.

Nowhere did I say "you must observe Sabbath" or "you must believe Jesus is God and not just a man" or "you must not be homosexual" or "you must do this, you must do that". So it is silly to claim that I am forcing things on people when I give no commands and only speak of the linguistic facts.


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Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
Otto is saying the same thing I was Chris.

Your doctrinal views and opinions are clouding the primacy issue, no matter how you try to slice it, spin it, or whatever. If you want to "really" promote aramaic primacy of some sort, then your gonna have to remove your views from it. It will only attract the wrong attention from people, and they will automatically focus in on that instead of the corrections the aramaic makes within the greek, which is one it's greatest points.

That is if you really wish to take responsibility for how you promote this in front of your peers and how people consider your work, as you say that you do.

You could, on the other hand, not really care about it, and just wish to promote your doctrinal issues instead, in a very stealthy manner. Or worse yet, just compile this book on the work that someone else did, say,......hmmmm,........ a former friend who actually knows what he is talking about, and fluently speaks the language, and oh, did all the work already and posted it on his site?! You could then just copy it, copywrite it as your own without telling him, and then call it your own. I mean, that would be easy for you to do and you could just drop their name at a moments notice whenever you wished your personality to appear bigger than it really was. Also, since your former friend who provided you all this work for free is a very esteeemed individual within the aramaic primacy movement, people would automatically associate you as one of the "bigtimers and bigwigs" in the primacy movement. Just say that the person who did the work you copied from them approves of everything you did on your site. Bingo! Quick and easy stealthy plagerism at it's finest in the 21st century! Instant celebrity status!

But of course, I don't know if you really could look yourself in the mirror after all that though, I know I couldn't. And I know people would see right through me no matter what did to try and justify it, if I did that sort of thing to one of my friends,....... and definetly, GOD is not mocked, I wouldn't be able to look upward and ask for anything from HIM anymore. I guess if you did that sort of thing, you wouldn't care what bridges you burn with your friends anyways, right?!

Anyways, just some fodder for you to chew on. But yea, people are interesting sometimes, and very predictable.

But back to the issue, I think people are trying to help you with your website Chris. The doctrinal issues mixed within it will only detract from anything good the peshitta would be viewed as though.

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