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Back Breaker

Quote:I have the documents of Nicea and Ephesus and there is not one word about which Gospels to use or the Peshitta.

Go to the source to substantiate claims of this sort.

You're right. Here are the sources:

The Muratorian Canon
The Canon Of Origen (A.D. c. 185 - 254)
The Canon Of Eusebius Of Caesarea (A.D. 265 - 340)
A Canon Of Uncertain Date And Provenance Inserted in Codex Claromontanus
The Canon Of Cyril Of Jerusalem (c. A.D. 350)
The Cheltenham Canon (c. A.D. 360)
The Canon Approved By The Synod Of Laodicea (c. A.D. 363)
The Canon Of Athanasius (A.D. 367)
The Canon Approved By The 'Apostolic Canons' (c. A.D. 380)
The Canon Of Gregory Of Nazianzus (A.D. 329 - 89)
The Canon Of Amphilochius Of Iconium (d. 394)
The Canon Approved By The Third Synod Of Carthage (A.D. 397)

The idea of a complete and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the beginning, that is from Apostolic times, has no foundation in history. The Canon of the New Testament, like that of the Old, is the result of a development, of a process at once stimulated by disputes with doubters, both within and without the Church, and retarded by certain obscurities and natural hesitations, and which did not reach its final term until the dogmatic definition of the Tridentine Council.The Catholic Encyclopedia Online Edition.


"With reference to....the originality of the Peshitta text, as the Patriarch and Head of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church of the East, we wish to state, that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original, the language spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and that the Peshitta is the text of the Church of the East which has come down from the Biblical times without any change or revision."

Syriac Church: Syriac Churches used the Diatesseron, the four-in-one Gospel, introduced by Tatian, and was read in the Syriac Churches for quite some time before it was replaced by Peshitta. Peshitta has again a different number of Books in the New Testament. This represents for the New Testament an accomodation of the canon of the Syrians with that of the Greeks. Third Corinthians was rejected, and, in addition to the fourteen Pauline Epistles (including Hebrews, following Philemon), three longer Catholic Epistles (James, 1 Peter, and 1 John) were included. The four shorter Catholic Epistles (2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude) and the Apocalypse are absent from the Peshitta Syriac version, and thus the Syriac canon of the New Testament contained but twenty-two writings. For a large part of the Syrian Church this constituted the closing of the canon, for after the Council of Ephesus (431 CE) the East Syrians separated themselves as Nestorians from the Great Church.


Athanasius issued his Thirty-Ninth Festal Epistle not only in the Greek but also in Coptic, in a slightly different form - though the list of the twenty seven books of the New Testament is the same in both languages. How far, however the list remained authoritative for the Copts is problematical. The Coptic (Bohairic) translation of the collection knowns as the Eighty-Five Apostlic Canons concludes with a different sequence of the books of the New Testament and is enlarged by the addition of two others: the four Gospels; the Acts of the Apostles; the fourteen Epistles of Paul (not mentioned individually); two Epistles of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; the Apocalypse of John; the two Epistles of Clement.

Yet both claims to be Apostolic:

Coptic Church: An Ancient Christian Church. It is one of the most ancient Churches in the world, having been founded by Saint Mark the Apostle, the writer of the second gospel, in the first Century. The word 'Coptic' comes from the ancient Egyptian word ???hekaptah' meaning 'Egypt', and thus 'Coptic' merely means 'Egyptian.' As a conservative Church, the Coptic Church has carefully preserved the Orthodox Christian Faith in its earliest and purest form, handing it down from generation to generation, unaltered and true to the Apostolic doctrines and patterns of worship.


The Church of the East began during the missionary activity which took place in the Apostolic Age. Written records have been traced to the late second century of the Christian era. The numbers of people who belonged to the Church at that time, and the broad area it covered, would indicate that there had been a long period of development and growth, possibly reaching back into the first century and the time of the Apostles. Tradition in the Church of the East dates its founding in the middle of the first century.

Two different dogmas
Two different canons
Same Apostles.

One or both Churches are either lying or later fell into envy, thus creating a schism. After all, there can only be one "earliest."

ahem: The Syrian Orthodox Church and the Church of the East
cough: Peshitta and Peshitto
sneeze: theological disputes
bless me: final split
sneeze: two Patriarchs claiming authority from Peter.

There is something wrong here, Metal.
???Do not give up, for that is ignorance and not according to the rules of this art... Like the lover, you cannot hope to achieve success without infinite perseverance.???

Messages In This Thread
Back Breaker - by bar_khela - 11-02-2004, 11:08 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-03-2004, 05:44 PM
[No subject] - by ograabe - 11-03-2004, 11:58 PM
Early mss of Peshitta - by gbausc - 11-04-2004, 04:03 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-04-2004, 08:27 PM
Re: Early mss of Peshitta - by bar_khela - 11-04-2004, 09:16 PM
Re: Early mss of Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-04-2004, 09:44 PM
The Figure-Four - by bar_khela - 11-04-2004, 11:50 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-05-2004, 12:05 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-05-2004, 02:43 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-05-2004, 04:34 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-09-2004, 12:30 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-10-2004, 12:07 AM
Koran Contradiction? - by Keith - 11-10-2004, 03:46 AM
[No subject] - by metal1633 - 11-10-2004, 04:13 AM
[No subject] - by peshitta_enthusiast - 11-10-2004, 05:15 AM
[No subject] - by peshitta_enthusiast - 11-10-2004, 05:18 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-10-2004, 03:57 PM
Plucking feathers - by bar_khela - 11-10-2004, 07:53 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 03:20 PM
Deathblow - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 04:35 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Re: Deathblow - by Keith - 11-12-2004, 02:17 AM
Re: Deathblow - by bar_khela - 11-16-2004, 01:16 AM
[No subject] - by Keith - 11-16-2004, 04:45 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-16-2004, 08:27 PM
[No subject] - by Keith - 11-16-2004, 10:59 PM

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