Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Back Breaker
Shlama Beloved,

Quote:Those aren't complete manuscripts, Akhi. For instance, the first link contains only Surah al-`Imran 45 to 54 and part of 55. So we don't know whether or not the number is 100, or 97%

If I were to use your tactics you tried to pull recently on another thread, I would claim that the rest is missing because I felt that Othman, Abu Bakr or someone else tampered with the other 99.9% of the Quran that is mysteriously missing from this tiny little fragment and somebody ripped out the pages so as not to be embarrased.

I would claim, like you did, that the Muslims had their "own little secret council of Ephesus" and edited the book.....and, of course, I would dare you to prove me wrong.

See, I don't work that way. You tell me this is 100% the same as other Qurans....and you tell me it's a signatured copy. However, I see no signature from Mohammad (not that he could write, anyway), nor can it be proven that the rest of it would have agreed "100%" with modern printed copies.

Thus, if the Qur'an had been transmitted only orally for the first century, sizeable variations between texts such as are seen in the had??th and pre-Islamic poetry would be found, and if it had been transmitted only in writing, sizeable variations such as in the different transmissions of the original document of the constitution of Medina would be found. But neither is the case with the Qur'an. There must have been a parallel written transmission limiting variation in the oral transmission to the graphic form, side by side with a parallel oral transmission preserving the written transmission from corruption.The transmission of the Qur'an after the death of Muhammad was essentially static, rather than organic. There was a single text, and nothing significant, not even allegedly abrogated material, could be taken out nor could anything be put inAdrian Brockett, "The Value of Hafs And Warsh Transmissions For The Textual History Of The Qur'an" in Andrew Rippin's (Ed.), Approaches of The History of Interpretation of The Qur'an, 1988, Clarendon Press, Oxford, p. 33.

Quote:And people's memory of the same event or text can be different. That's why Uthman had to "standardize" the disparate copies of the Quran, and suppressed the ones which difference in reading to his "authorized version."

The dispute was rivalry over the proper pronounciation of the Qu'ran, not memory.

Quote:In any case, written texts are far superior to oral transmission. Otherwise, we might as well get rid of all books, after memorizing them of course, since they are unnecessary. Written texts create records which can be examined, whereas only silent arguments can be obtained from the history of oral transmission...we simply have no way to substantiate your claim.

Written records must be complemented with memory. Otherwise, such records can be altered.

Quote:Again, you try the "pigs on Mars" approach and boldly declare something you have absolutely no evidence wit, that the CoE was guilty of revision. What revision?

Don't be silly. You really think Tatian is the only one in the world who had the four distinct Gospels? That nobody else in Assyria had a copy of what he had made his Damkhaltey from?

C'MON, Akhi.

You're right.

Quote:You can promise to look into it. That you cannot accept something you cannot verify is a good trait to have, then why do you accept that the Quran is 100% accurate, and claim divine intervention for it....but then when it comes time where you are confronted with the evidence of an Aramaic NT that is also 100% accurate in all of its existing copies, that you reject it?

Quote:Is it because it flies in the fact of everything Islam has claimed about the NT? That Islam rightly criticizes the Greek transmission of these texts is a good thing. That it ignores, very conveniently by the way, the history and accuracy of the Aramaic very very sneaky.

And that's why the sudden reversal on your part, isn't it? That you can't have this Aramaic NT floating around without any tampering and with a pureness of textual transmission even more astounding than the Quran even....seeing that our oldest manuscript beats the Quran by at least 200 years.....and its the exact same as the ones that are printed today, because the ones that are printed today are these 5th-century manuscripts....only printed using modern equipment.

That's what scares you so, isn't it? That Islam's claim to being the only religion with an "uncorrupt" text is falling on its face now that the truth of the Aramaic NT comes out in the open and that Western Christians are re-discovering what fanatical Muslims like Tamerlane tried so desperately to obliterate.....the Aramaic NT and the Aramaic Church.

I get it now. <!-- sConfusedatisfied: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/satisfied.gif" alt="Confusedatisfied:" title="Satisfied" /><!-- sConfusedatisfied: --> [/quote]

Dude, pick up a copy of Hyam Maccoby's The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity.
???Do not give up, for that is ignorance and not according to the rules of this art... Like the lover, you cannot hope to achieve success without infinite perseverance.???

Messages In This Thread
Back Breaker - by bar_khela - 11-02-2004, 11:08 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-03-2004, 05:44 PM
[No subject] - by ograabe - 11-03-2004, 11:58 PM
Early mss of Peshitta - by gbausc - 11-04-2004, 04:03 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-04-2004, 08:27 PM
Re: Early mss of Peshitta - by bar_khela - 11-04-2004, 09:16 PM
Re: Early mss of Peshitta - by Paul Younan - 11-04-2004, 09:44 PM
The Figure-Four - by bar_khela - 11-04-2004, 11:50 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-05-2004, 12:05 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-05-2004, 02:43 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-05-2004, 04:34 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-09-2004, 12:30 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-10-2004, 12:07 AM
Koran Contradiction? - by Keith - 11-10-2004, 03:46 AM
[No subject] - by metal1633 - 11-10-2004, 04:13 AM
[No subject] - by peshitta_enthusiast - 11-10-2004, 05:15 AM
[No subject] - by peshitta_enthusiast - 11-10-2004, 05:18 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 11-10-2004, 03:57 PM
Plucking feathers - by bar_khela - 11-10-2004, 07:53 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 03:20 PM
Deathblow - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 04:35 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Re: Deathblow - by Keith - 11-12-2004, 02:17 AM
Re: Deathblow - by bar_khela - 11-16-2004, 01:16 AM
[No subject] - by Keith - 11-16-2004, 04:45 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 11-16-2004, 08:27 PM
[No subject] - by Keith - 11-16-2004, 10:59 PM

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)