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Dan Gan
Shlama all--

I have been reading this very lengthy and troubling thread and wanted to say a few words. My problem is that I can relate to both combatants in different ways, I can see both sides, which is why I want to set these words down.

First, to Dan Gan. Dan, trust me when I tell you that I understand what you mean when what from our view is the true faith has its sources questioned, and how this is offensive to the core. Look I may push the Hebraic stuff a lot, I call myself a Nazarene, etc., but I am just another follower of Meshikha Y'shua, just like anyone else here. There was even a time when I called myself a Hebrew Christian, although I haven't for many years. When the resurrection, the virgin birth, the Gospels or the rest of the NT (and Torah too) are dismissed, cast off, trust me when I tell you Dan I get just as angry and passionate as you do. And certainly there has been plenty of discord hsitorically between my ancestor Isaac and Bar Khela's spiritual ancestor Ishmael to fuel my passion.

But, remember that we pray for those who persecute us, and we show ourselves to be his disciples when we love one another. Now granted, I did not show love to Bar Khela when our debate got heated because I saw a slur against my people committed, and this obviously took a while to sort out.

At the same time, please don't think that my moderator status is the reason behind his apology to me. I may make recommendations, but I don't have the power to exclude anyone unilaterally. Even if I did though, the fact that Bar Khela did not back down for all those posts, and the fact that he was willing to go should tell you that his apology to me was heartfelt and surely not coerced in any way from my position here at

Furthermore, I did not understand the comment about Bar Khela having "joined" before me, or me him. This forum began June 1, 2000 with myself, Paul Younan, and Bar Khela, along with some others. In 2003 or so the original posts were lost for a time and Paul had to have us re-register, which are the dates you see currently.

I also think that that whole "newbie" thing was irrelevant to the discussion anyway. This is not a fraternity where seniority matters, but a group of colleagues united by our love of the Peshitta. Bar Khela is right when he says we have known one another for a very long time. Sometimes we have fought like younger and older siblings, but we managed to make up and move on nevertheless. And I can also say that he does have an enthusiasm for the Peshitta that is genuine. I should know, because I helped put it there when he was a 15 year old boy urgently seeking the truth and trying to please God in a very oppressive environment. I remember it all, but I will not go into more specifics at this time.

In the end, we need to be true witneseses and clean vessels to be worthy of the Nazarene who paid for our sins with his life on the cross, and we are told that we would be persecuted for his namesake but great is our reward in heaven. Rejoice Akhi! Rejoice! All the trials and tribulations of the world mean NOTHING compared to our inheritance that is eternal, where moth and rust cannot destroy. We must stay true and preach the Gospel of love and kindness for all men. The rest is a distraction from the enemy.

Now, Bar Khela, your turn. I have always been candid with you and given things to you straight from my heart, so let me do so now. You have many admirable qualities. Your passion for truth, your desire to study and your willingness to think on your feet and not be swayed by a hostile majority are just what comes off the top of my head.

But let me say this too, you are still seeking Akhi, and this choice you have made for Islam I do not believe is your final faith destination. In fact, and I mean this with all respect and love, I pray it is not. It may be that your vision of Islam is one of peace and tolerance, but I cannot escape my heritage nor my fear of this faith of yours. I honestly hope you are correct in your appraisal, but my own eyes see so much that tells me no. I am not an ignorant man Akhi, and I am more well read on these matters than the average American, so take heed, because if I feel this way, trust me the rest of my people and my Christian brethren are feeling way way worse.

You must understand that this is where we are and choose your words with great care. We've talked about this before, you know, and now you see you must go out of your way to show us what a peaceful Muslim is. It is unfair what I am saying to you I know, but you have to be an ambassador for your faith in ways that so many others cannot, or even if you are right, this true peaceful Islam of yours will never be understood by a single one of us here. Even I, your friend, honestly believe that Islam needs to be cured by one thing and one thing only: Christianity. Y'shua must come into all of your hearts and reign there Akhi, really, because he is the ONLY ANSWER. And no, this is nothing to do with Constantine or Inquistiions, and we can talk about other theological issues that need fleshing out (you know what they are, I won't say them here) at another time.

But for now, understand that it has to do with the true Gospel and its highest interpretation of Torah, as preserved in the Holy Peshitta text. Like the old evangelist says, and I know I'm sounding like a major goy here but THERE IS ROOM AT THE CROSS FOR YOU.

Now as to your point about a kind of double standard, i.e. that Christianity (or Messiah-anity) is discussed , but when comes another faith we go "Danger! Theology in progress!" I have to admit there is some validity to that.

On the other hand, we are talking about the NT, the corpus that gave birth to the Nazarenes and the Christians. As a result, when looking at the Aramaic for its underlying message, "Christian" themes are inevitable and not meant to be prejudicial. We must expect that all issues that arise proximately from the Peshitta study regimen are fair game. How can you read Aramaic Galatians and not talk about Torah and circumcision? Or how about reading Hebrews and not talking about the kohenim? Impossible right? But Islam does not arise from this holy text, at least not in the way you would like it to. Therefore, it is easier to distance ourselves from Muslim themes than it is the Messianic themes that are born in the Peshitta.

So, not a double standard after all, but I can see why it might appear that it is such to you.

Finally, while I found the material you showed here interesting on treaties Mohammed made with Jews and Christians, I keep coming back to the principle of abrogation, that the peaceful verses of the Qu'uran are set aside by the 164 jihad verses. I also believe the "reliable" Hadith you mention is the same one that praised people for killing women suckling their infants and old men. Again this comes from the web, and perhaps it is distorted, but you need to know what is out there before you can talk on it intelligently.

For myself, the three biggest theological things I have against Islam are:

1) Mohammed did no signs and wonders as every other prophet did.
2) There is no evidence that the Ishmaelite line would ever have a prophet.
3) Every Hebrew prophet, and yes Y'shua too, spoke in the name of YAHWEH. They all must come in the NAME of YAHWEH. If not, Torah tells us they are false.

Now, I don't want you to necessarily respond on this score here and open a theological thread that may upset others here, but you are most welcome to email me privately on these matters. I will listen.

Meanwhile, let us please return to discussing the Aramaic and the Peshitta, I beg of you all, that we do this speedily. Thank you all for your kind attention.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Messages In This Thread
Dan Gan - by bar_khela - 02-22-2005, 04:06 PM
[No subject] - by ograabe - 02-22-2005, 05:33 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 02-22-2005, 06:08 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 02-22-2005, 06:33 PM
Re: Dan Gan - by Dan Gan - 02-22-2005, 07:22 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 02-22-2005, 09:47 PM
[No subject] - by ograabe - 02-22-2005, 10:22 PM
Re: Dan Gan - by bar_khela - 02-22-2005, 11:34 PM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 02-22-2005, 11:38 PM
Kevin, please - by Keith - 02-23-2005, 02:17 AM
Re: Dan Gan - by Dan Gan - 02-23-2005, 07:51 AM
Re: Dan Gan - by bar_khela - 02-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Re: Kevin, please - by bar_khela - 02-23-2005, 05:10 PM
[No subject] - by Keith - 02-24-2005, 02:46 AM
[No subject] - by bar_khela - 02-24-2005, 03:58 PM
Shlama and Salaam to all - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 02-26-2005, 03:55 AM

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