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+--- Thread: Bar (/showthread.php?tid=896)
Bar - Gentile - 06-11-2004
Hey
Just wondering about the Aramaic word BAR. Please can someone confirm the following for me to assist my study:
This word can mean both SON or CHILD, and also TO CREATE or CREATOR, am I right?
Thanks
- Paul Younan - 06-11-2004
Shlama Gentile,
The Emphatic Noun "Bra" [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rb[/font] (from the lexical root "Bar" [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rb[/font]) means "son."
The Verb "Bra" [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rb[/font] means "to create."
It's only a coincidence that the Emphatic form of [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]rb[/font] happens to be spelled the same way as the Verb.
- Dean Dana - 06-14-2004
Shlama Akhay,
Maybe there is more to it than just a coincidence?
Isn???t it wild that both words for "son" (Bar and Ben) share very similar sounding verbs that have the ideas of creating and building respectfully?
-Dean
- abudar2000 - 06-14-2004
Breekh Yawmo oh Dean,
Dean Dana Wrote:Shlama Akhay,
Maybe there is more to it than just a coincidence?
Isn???t it wild that both words for "son" (Bar and Ben) share very similar sounding verbs that have the ideas of creating and building respectfully?
-Dean
The word "bar" => Son (Construct State)
The word "bnay" => Sons (Construct State)
The word "bro" => Son (Emphatic State)
The word "bro" => Create (Verb, Peal, Perfect, 3rd Person)
The word "bno" => Build (Verb, Peal, Perfect, 3rd Person)
The word for son could an added meaning to the primitive words for "create" and "build". Since they seem to be related, but I'm only guessing.
poosh bashlomo,
keefa-moroon
- Paul Younan - 06-14-2004
It is very interesting the inter-relationship of the roots...perhaps it goes back to some proto-Semitic word imagery?
- Dean Dana - 06-14-2004
Hi Akh,
Maybe the idea of a son being the creation and the building of ones progeny?
-Dean
- Paul Younan - 06-14-2004
Check this out:
The Strong's entry for Aramaic "bar" (01247) is that it corresponds to the Hebrew "ben" (01121), which in turn comes from "banah" (01129) a primitive (proto-Semitic) root meaning "to build." <!-- s
--><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Hey - Proverbs 31:2, Psalms 2:12 contains "bar" instead of "ben"
I knew the word occured in the Aramaic portions of Ezra and Daniel, but I didn't know it was in Psalms and Proverbs.
- Dean Dana - 06-14-2004
Pretty neat huh Akh?
Psalm 2:12 is controversial. "Neshku bar" literally means "kiss [the] son". Some translators (especially Jewish ones) translate "bar" as 'purity' rendering the phrase "Do Homage in Purity".
In fact the Latin vulgate also translates 'bar' as 'purity' or 'purely'.
Check out the usage of "ben" in Proverbs 30:4
Quote:Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has taken the winds in his hands, prisoning the waters in his robe? By whom have all the ends of the earth been fixed? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if you know?
-Dean
- Rob - 06-15-2004
The Targums and LXX give it a somewhat ackward translation.
Quote:Accept correction, lest at any time the Lord be angry
- Gentile - 06-16-2004
Reason I ask is concerning use of Bar Nasha by Isho when it comes to saying when "Bar nasha will judge the 12 tribes of Israel" - God is the only ultimate judge, so does Isho mean Creator of Man.
Please dont just stick to the traditional meaning in this case.
- Dean Dana - 06-16-2004
Shlama Gentile,
"Bar Nasha" usually simply means "human". The term doubles as a very specific messianic title stemming from Daniels vision in Dan 7:13.
I believe Yeshua's usage of the term "bar Nasha" is a specific claim to being Messiah. He is basically claiming to be the Bar Nasha of Daniel???s vision.
-Dean
- Gentile - 06-17-2004
Hey Dean.
What I really want to know is if, linguistically speaking, Bar Nasha can mean Creator of Humans. As before under my other thread I have shown in Semetic languages that the word BAR/BEN is used frequently in other senses than 'a son'. But the same spelling for BAR comes into the meaning of Creator too. I.e. breyt bar alaha etc.
- Dean Dana - 06-17-2004
Shlama Gentile,
In order to get "creator of man" the Aramaic would have to be something like "Baraya d'anashey" [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]046n0d 0yrb[/font]
-Dean