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Re: . - Zechariah14 - 02-10-2004

drmlanc Wrote:"and also the famous 666 only works in Hebrew and Aramaic as a cipher for "Nero Caesar" and not in Greek.
"
Please explain!

In Greek, if I'm not mistaken, it adds to 616.


. - drmlanc - 02-10-2004

I see. I don't know if that has any significance with Revelation though seeing as how there are so many "666 people" Like el papa in latin and Bill Gates in binary...


- HoffmanS - 02-10-2004

Shalom vShlama,
The words " In the year 508, Philoxenius of Madbug did the first translation of Revelation into Aramaic for his Syrian Orthodox Church, "
make it clear that the Aramaic text of the Revelation was not available before the translation. But, this is a theory because possibly it was not available just for Philoxenius or was the Aramaic original simply lost.
I see that our brothers refer to semisplit words to defend Aramaic primacy of the NT. Now, they defend the Aramaic primacy of the book of Revelation. Look here:
In
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/SemiSplitWords.pdf">http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/SemiSplitWords.pdf</a><!-- m --> we find 11. Bed or coffin? ??? Revelation 2:20, and in <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/SplitWords1.pdf">http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/SplitWords1.pdf</a><!-- m --> we find 6. Those who are strong or who have power? ??? Revelation 6:15. We see that they defend the Revelation as original in Aramaic.
As for me, I do not see that semisplit words are final proof. Let us look at another picture and imagine. Certain translators from Greek into Aramaic are tired of loan Aramaic words in the Greek texts. So, they independently translate them in their own way.
Another picture possible. The Crawford manuscript is misterious and likewise the COE Peshitta is misterious also. The only reasonable and full proof that I see is oral tradition that the Peshitta is NT original. But, oral traditions are misterious and of unknown origin.
Now, let us look at one more picture. If the Peshitta manuscripts not differ one from another (if it is true), this is something serious!!!!!!
Sam.


. - drmlanc - 02-10-2004

A lot of us believe in Western 5 Aramaic originals because of the many Semiticisms and Aramaicisms in Revelation, as well as the bad Greek grammar. i.e. our best evidence for an original Aramaic Revelation is in the Greek!


Re: 666 - Zechariah14 - 02-10-2004

drmlanc Wrote:I see. I don't know if that has any significance with Revelation though seeing as how there are so many "666 people" Like el papa in latin and Bill Gates in binary...

The way "Charles, Prince of Wales" is transliterated (Charles and Wales) and translated (Prince) into Hebrew by Israeli newspapers also adds up to 666.....in Hebrew. Further, if the last 4 letters in English are given a numerical value of zero (to replicate the 22 letter alef-bet) then "Charles, Prince of Wales" adds up to 666 in English, too. The meaning of the name Charles is "manly" and this number is the number of a man. Given the winged, loin-clothed statue of Charles being built in Brazil with the caption: "Prince Charles, Savior of the World," well, it's food for thought anyway, and, in my opinion, he's a man worth watching.


. - drmlanc - 02-10-2004

Yeah I heard of that what do the Brazilians have to do with Charlie? Freaky...

But Prince fits, because the antiChrist I believe was supposed to be a prince, not a king <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> But maybe it was just the Pope all along. It'll be one heckuva ride finding out in due time though!


- gbausc - 02-10-2004

Sam,

I have the Aramaic Scripture Research Peshitta NT with Hebrew translation you mentioned. It claims to be the Eastern Peshitta text with the 5 books of the Western canon added from the Harklean Version of AD 616. It also has the pericope de adultera added (John 7:53-8:1-11) from Lee's edition and a couple other verses in Luke which are not in any Peshitta ms.

I also noticed that the ad Trinitae verse 1 John 5:7 is included, which surprised me because 1 John is supposed to be from the Eastern Peshitta text which does not contain that verse. I believe it comes from an older edition in which the editor translated Greek into Aramaic for that verse. Very few Greek mss. contain the reading, however, many Latin Vulgate mss. do contain it.

The Aramaic-Hebrew edition is great for learning Aramaic if you know some Hebrew, or Hebrew if you know Aramaic. It is not the best representative of The Peshitta text available, nor a good representative of the Western Peshitto text. For the latter, I like The Syriac Bible, 1979 Ed., though the script is Western Serto. It is based , (for The NT) on critical editions of Gwilliam and Pusey for the Gospels and Paul's epistles as well as Gwynn's Edition of The Catholic Epistles and Apocalypse(which differs considerably from the HarKlean text of the other volume you inquired about).

Blessings,


Dave B


- HoffmanS - 02-10-2004

Shlama, brothers,
Let me kindly remind You that the topic here is about Peshitta and Peshitto. Well, Andrew Gabriel Roth explained us that the Revelation was translated from Greek into Aramaic by some Philoxenius and it means that no Aramaic text was available before the translation. Then, what about other translations of 27 books from Greek into Aramaic? It should mean the same as with the Crawford. ??We should weigh all fors and againsts.
Sam.


- HoffmanS - 02-11-2004

Thank You, gbausc, very much for the explanation about the above book.
It has helped me a lot.
Sam.



- Dan Gan - 02-12-2004

I have The New Covenant Aramaic Peshitta with Hebrew Translation edited by The Aramaic Scriptures Research Society in Israel and published by The Bible Society, Jerusalem in 1986. It is one of the best books that I ever bought.

I wrote to Mr Lim Kay Tham of The Bible Society in Singapore ten years ago requesting for the Bible in Syriac. He ordered for me The Syriac Bible, Syriac New Testament (Suryanice Incil Ve Mezmurlar) and the one mentioned by Sam. I bought all of them. There was one extra copy for The New Covenant Aramaic Peshitta and it remained there for many years. Recently, I visited the Bible Society's bookshop and the book is no longer there. That means someone has purchased it. If you are the person who bought that book, I hope you could response to my message as we could be the only person in Singapore to own the Gospel in Aramaic. <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin --> <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

The Aramaic text has been transcribed in Hebrew letters complete with the vowel points. If you read Hebrew, this is definitely one of the best books to learn Aramaic. I am so happy to discover that Aramaic is so similar to Hebrew that makes learning Aramaic easier for someone like me who has no good Aramaic grammar to start with. You can't find Aramaic grammars in Christian bookshops, Kinokuniya and Borders here. <!-- s:angry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/angry.gif" alt=":angry:" title="Angry" /><!-- s:angry: --> I have to order it from USA.

The minus point about this book is that it makes me lazy to familiarize myself with Syriac scripts as I constantly refer to this book instead of the other two that I own. <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->