Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Acts 22
#1
I recently saw an historian argue that the author of Acts got some historical facts wrong,
(a) because of ...giving a title that did not exist that of the Roman officer mentioned.
and
(b) having a member of the highest social and economic class in Rome purchase his citizenship.

Does the Aramaic shed any light on this?
What is the precise title given to the Roman officer?

The thread can be found here.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://new.carmforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=1536&mode=full&page=">http://new.carmforums.org/dc/dcboard.ph ... full&page=</a><!-- m -->
Reply
#2
Shlama Akhi Michael,

The Peshitta uses Latin loan words for 'centurion' and 'chiliarch' in Acts 22:26. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=18725">http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=18725</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=10190">http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=10190</a><!-- m -->

From what I'm seeing at Perseus, this guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Notice the 151 instances of Tacitus, not to mention all the others, at this link.........

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/persfreq?lookup=centurio%232&lang=la&bytepos=1100825&wordcount=1&doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0027&formentry=0">http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pe ... ormentry=0</a><!-- m -->

As for the second point you mentioned, I might have to do considerably more homework. <!-- sSleepy --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sleepy.gif" alt="Sleepy" title="Sleepy" /><!-- sSleepy -->

Shlama w'Burkate, Larry Kelsey
Reply
#3
Larry Kelsey Wrote:Shlama Akhi Michael,

The Peshitta uses Latin loan words for 'centurion' and 'chiliarch' in Acts 22:26. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=18725">http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=18725</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=10190">http://www.peshitta.com/word.html?word=10190</a><!-- m -->



Shlama w'Burkate, Larry Kelsey

Thanks Larry..luv your work. Actually my post was a little misleading. The author of the other thread who is an historian suggests that tyhe greek of Acts 21 uses two terms for the commander. One is Tribs mill (a title which did exist) but the other is Trib Cohort , a title which he suggests did not exist. And he does go to some length to back this up.

It may be another case of where the greek translator made an error.
Reply
#4
Sorry Michael, I need to correct myself here. Word #18725 is a Latin loan word and #10190 is a Greek loan word. Centurion~Latin / Chiliarch~Greek <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
Reply
#5
Shlama Akhay,

The argument presented by that fellow is rather ridiculous. It seems like he is grasping at straws because of something the Greek title could mean.

BTW - the last Assyrian commander during WWI bore the title "Agha Petros" - the first word being a Kurdish loan-word meaning "overlord/commander":

http://www.atour.com/~history/1900/20030929a.html
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
Reply
#6
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhay,

The argument presented by that fellow is rather ridiculous. It seems like he is grasping at straws because of something the Greek title could mean.

BTW - the last Assyrian commander during WWI bore the title "Agha Petros" - the first word being a Kurdish loan-word meaning "overlord/commander":

http://www.atour.com/~history/1900/20030929a.html

Shlama Akhi Paul,

The plot really thickens concerning this word that this gentleman is holding in question. The word for 'cohort' in Acts 21:31 (and several other places), is sp™ira, speira, spi'-rah,......

*********** Strong's entry ***********
Of immediate Latin origin, but ultimately a derivative of G138 in the sense of its cognate, G1507; (figuratively) a mass of men (a Roman military cohort; a coil (spira, “spire”), that is, also [by analogy] a squad of Levitical janitors): - band.
*****************************************

Looking at this derivative of G138 mentioned above....

********* Strong's entry **************
a??r™omai, aihreomai, hahee-reh'-om-ahee,
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer.
*******************************************
Looking at the cognate of G138, namely G1507, ....

********** Strong's entry ************
e??l??ssw, heilisso, A prolonged form of a primary but defective verb e??lw heilō (of the same meaning); to coil or wrap
****************************************

Looking at G142 that is most likely related to G138.....

********** Strong's entry ****************
airw, airo, ah'ee-ro. A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
*****************************************

So here we are going from Latin to Greek to Hebrew ?!?! <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> A Latin word etymologically linked to a Greek word that sometimes uses a Hebraism when they want to express the expiation or lifting of sin. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

************* Strong's entry *************
'Wn OR hsn, naw-saw'
A primitive root; to lift, in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively, absolutely and relatively
************************************

The words 'cross-cultural' and 'cosmopolitan' keep coming to mind, akh !! <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Shlama w'Burkate, Larry Kelsey
Reply
#7
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhay,

The argument presented by that fellow is rather ridiculous. It seems like he is grasping at straws because of something the Greek title could mean.
Yes, you may be right. It is usually interesting when people find probelms in the greek texts to check what the original said. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

How do you read the Aramaic in Acts 21:31? Are both the words 0krylkl ryps0d necessarily a title? The author of the original thread is going to check with an Aramaic teacher at his university.

If nothinhg else it is worthwhile to point out the Aramaic in these instances. The majority are not even aware there is an Aramaic NT.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)