Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
use of OS by ancient Aramaic-speaking Christians
#76
yuku Wrote:
judge Wrote:Thanks Yuri.

I think that your original words may be improved upon. I don't think it is really accurate to say....."I've presented the whole phrases from Aphrahat that agree with the Diatessaron and/or the Old Syriac word for word."

What we seem to have is whole phrases that do not agree word for word but are however closer in some points than the peshitta.

It is difficult to see how this could be evidence in a scientific sense.
This evidence does not compare to quotes from Aphrahat which actually do read word for word the same as the peshitta.

What do you think?

Shlama, Judge,

I don't quite understand what you're saying.

<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=204">viewtopic.php?t=204</a><!-- l -->

Below, we can confirm that the central part of Aphrahat's citation indeed reads exactly
the same as the OS Mk.

(Aphrahat)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay
(Mk 10:20 SyS)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay

But Aphrahat reads very differently from the Peshitta Mark,

(Aphrahat)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay
(Peshitta Mk 10:20)
haleyn kolahyn nitrat anyn, myn tlywty

Here are the English translations again,

(Aphrahat)
"These -- I have done them, lo, from when I was a child."
(Peshitta Mk 10:20)
"all these have I kept from my childhood."

The same phrase, word for word. And there are more in the same passage.

Shlama,

Yuri.

Thanks Yuri, this clears it up for me! <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
When you say the central part , what do you mean?
Reply
#77
yuku Wrote:
judge Wrote:Thanks Yuri.

I think that your original words may be improved upon. I don't think it is really accurate to say....."I've presented the whole phrases from Aphrahat that agree with the Diatessaron and/or the Old Syriac word for word."

What we seem to have is whole phrases that do not agree word for word but are however closer in some points than the peshitta.

It is difficult to see how this could be evidence in a scientific sense.
This evidence does not compare to quotes from Aphrahat which actually do read word for word the same as the peshitta.

What do you think?

Shlama, Judge,

I don't quite understand what you're saying.

<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=204">viewtopic.php?t=204</a><!-- l -->

Below, we can confirm that the central part of Aphrahat's citation indeed reads exactly
the same as the OS Mk.

(Aphrahat)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay
(Mk 10:20 SyS)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay

But Aphrahat reads very differently from the Peshitta Mark,

(Aphrahat)
haleyn -- abadat anyn, haw, myn d'tlaya enay
(Peshitta Mk 10:20)
haleyn kolahyn nitrat anyn, myn tlywty

Here are the English translations again,

(Aphrahat)
"These -- I have done them, lo, from when I was a child."
(Peshitta Mk 10:20)
"all these have I kept from my childhood."

The same phrase, word for word. And there are more in the same passage.

Shlama,

Yuri.

Yuri, on re-reading this in the original post, I think we must conclude that aphrahat was not quoting the Old Syriac.
It appears to if we look at the portion of Aphrahat you have quoted. However above you have chopped off the beginning and ending of Aphrahats quote. If we include the entire quote we see that Aphrahat full quote contains words that are not present in the Ols Syriac.

Is there any occaision at all where aphrahat quotes the Old Syriac precisely?
Reply
#78
Heheh. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> Gotta love how these guys practice their "scientific methodology." Just like Trimm, who gives you one example that slightly resembles an Old Scratch quote if you turn it over 90 degrees and stand on your head while holding your breath....but ignores 10 direct word-for-word quotes from the Peshitta. Sheesh.

Mar Aphrahat lived over a century before Rabbula was born. If Rabbula created Old Scratch, and I think all the evidence points to it, then Mar Aphrahat could only have been paraphrasing one of two sources for his Gospel quotations - either the separate Peshitta gospels or Tatian the Assyrian's Peshitta Gospel harmony.

We've already demonstrated that Mar Aphrahat's quotes of Paul's epistles come directly from the Peshitta.

We'd better watch out, though. Akhan Dave might pop in and claim that Mar Aphrahat's works must have been tampered with to make them read like the Peshitta.

Those are the rules, you know. If they find a little something from Mar Aphrahat that ever so slightly somewhat resembles an Old Syriac reading, it is hailed as a monumental discovery and an empirical evidence for their position.

On the other hand, if we find 10 solid examples, without question from the Peshitta, for every one of their examples - well, that MUST be tampering!

It's a no-win situation for us, I suppose. <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh -->

Love you, Dave. I'm only needling you.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)