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Juckel's study
#11
Shlama Akhi Yuri,

yuku Wrote:Well, actually, the author said that about the Pauline manuscripts, and not about the gospel MSS. The textual situation with the Pauline MSS is very different, as compared to gospel MSS.

Oh, I see. So the SOC tradition had no qualms about "continuously revising" (Juckel's words) the "Pauline" books, adding 5 books to the canon from the Greek canon - but the Gospels were off-limits, huh?

Are you sure about this? How about the story of the woman caught in adultery? Does that count as "Pauline", or as being in the Gospels?

yuku Wrote:Well, I don't think that the Phillipps 1388 MS is all that different from any other old Aramaic MSS. This is what Juckel said in his article...

Again, I see. I don't think it's all that different from any other western manuscript, myself.

yuku Wrote:Sorry, akhi, but I'm getting more and more mystified. Gwilliam and Pusey used the total of 42 manuscripts for their authoritative edition of the Aramaic gospels. And now you're saying that only 3 of them were quality MSS, and the 39 were defective?

Gwilliam and Pusey must have been terribly incompetent to use such worthless MSS for their edition? Why didn't they use more of the excellent MSS such as the 3 that you've mentioned?

Do you really not know why the manuscripts available to them at the time were mostly of the western type?

Akhi, Gwilliam and Pusey used the manuscripts from the Nitrian Collection in the British Museum. These manuscripts came from the monastery of St. Mary in the Nitrian desert of Egypt.

Last I checked the map, Egypt is "west" of Mesopotamia. So you should expect that the vast majority of the manuscripts held by this monastery were western Peshitto (and not eastern Peshitta) texts. In fact, St. Mary is an SOC monastery.....heavily Monophysite (in fact, it was later renamed to "Monastery of Theotokos ("Mother of God")."

At the time Gwilliam and Pusey lived, the CoE was isolated in the rugged mountains of Kurdistan in southeastern Turkey. They, and their manuscripts, were inaccessible until 1915 when the genocide forced them out of their mountain striongholds and into the rest of the world where we are scattered today.

Gwilliam and Pusey simply did not have access to them. Do a search on Google for "Hakkari" and take a look at some images and read some history. I can't believe you, an author, do not know these things.

yuku Wrote:In any case, what are the numbers of these 3 Eastern MSS in Gwilliam/Pusey catalogue? Maybe I can find some variants there as well?

I do not have these handy at the moment. I will get back to you.

yuku Wrote:But, so far, based on what you're saying, it seems like, in general, old Aramaic manuscripts of the gospels must be rather corrupt (39 out of 42?)...

Your statement is incorrect. You act as if there is one textual tradition for Aramaic manuscripts. What you should have said is:

Old Western Aramaic manuscripts of the Gospels are corrupt - according to Juckel...and every other person who knows what they are talking about.

And, not just based on what I'm saying, either. Your man "Juckel" agrees with me....as does the Encyclopedia Britannica.....

I found 2 quotes for you (Ency. Britannica and Juckel) that slam western (SOC) textual integrity, quotes which state in no uncertain terms that the textual history of the Peshitto was revisionary, rather than conservatory, in nature.

Can you find any quote from anyone criticizing eastern (CoE) textual transmission?

I wonder why Juckel didn't make a similiar statement about the Church of the East? Does that make you wonder? Why is everyone picking on the SOC?
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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Messages In This Thread
Juckel's study - by yuku - 04-20-2004, 08:17 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-20-2004, 08:50 PM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-20-2004, 09:27 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-20-2004, 09:36 PM
[No subject] - by abudar2000 - 04-21-2004, 01:09 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-21-2004, 01:57 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-21-2004, 02:44 AM
[No subject] - by abudar2000 - 04-21-2004, 03:56 AM
[No subject] - by abudar2000 - 04-21-2004, 04:06 AM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-21-2004, 06:13 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-22-2004, 01:41 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-22-2004, 08:03 PM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-23-2004, 05:47 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 05:55 PM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-23-2004, 06:00 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 06:09 PM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-23-2004, 06:12 PM
[No subject] - by yuku - 04-23-2004, 06:34 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 06:38 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 07:00 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 07:04 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 07:40 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-23-2004, 08:40 PM
[No subject] - by The Thadman - 04-24-2004, 02:21 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 04-25-2004, 06:17 PM
[No subject] - by byrnesey - 08-07-2004, 12:15 AM
Re: Juckel's study - by Phil - 06-09-2011, 03:18 PM
Re: Juckel's study - by Paul Younan - 06-09-2011, 05:16 PM
Re: Juckel's study - by Thirdwoe - 06-10-2011, 06:18 AM

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