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I now have a website!
gbausc Wrote:Akha Andrew & Paul,

The article "Ancient Evidence" is great and supplies much
unknown evidence for Peshitta Primacy and OS counterfeiting. I can't get enough of it.

Shlama Akhi Dave,

I am glad you are enjoying it, and wanted to say that I appreciate your thoroughness and your scholarly demeanor. I do have a question though, as you will see.

You continue:

I have found a serious error in one of your examples (Paul's citation on Mark 5:26).

Quote:"The other point of the post was, the Peshitta could not be a revision of the "Old-Syriac" in favor
of the Greek reading of Mark 5:26. I cannot even fathom a direct relationship between the Peshitta
and OS, unless the translators of the "Old-Syriac" had referenced the Peshitta. That's about the
only relationship I can even imagine. The supposed revisers of the Peshitta had no reason to
include 0dy0 and change the Proclitic w to a Proclitic d.
"Look at this example through Occam's Razor. Notice also the second difference in the first line.
The Old Syriac has trbys (#13856)15 which is closer to the Greek 'Pas-kho' (meaning 'Endure'),
whereas the Peshitta has tlbs, (#13687) which means 'Suffer.' How can the Peshitta be a
revision of the OS in favor of the Greek, if the OS is closer to the Greek than the Peshitta is?

Examples like this one just don't make sense within the currently accepted Western framework."

The problem is with Paul's definition of Pas-kho. Pas-kho- (pasxw) means " I suffer" , not "I endure", which latter Paul affirms. "Upomeno" is the Greek for "I endure". The Peshitta agrees with the Greek here.

This , I think, would obviate the point of this example from the argument.

AGR continues:

Okay, and obviously Paul can speak for himself here. But here is what I want to know. The following is from <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href=""></a><!-- w -->

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3958 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pasco apparently a root word
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pascho 5:904,798
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pas'-kho Verb

to be affected or have been affected, to feel, have a sensible experience, to undergo
in a good sense, to be well off, in good case
in a bad sense, to suffer sadly, be in a bad plight
of a sick person

NAS Word Usage - Total: 40
endured 1, endured...sufferings 1, suffer 22, suffered 10, suffering 4, suffers 2

NAS Verse Count
Matthew 3
Mark 3
Luke 6
Acts 5
1 Corinthians 1
2 Corinthians 1
Galatians 1
Philippians 1
1 Thessalonians 1
2 Thessalonians 1
2 Timothy 1
Hebrews 4
1 Peter 10
Revelation 1



Total 39

Did you see it? PASKO means BOTH "endure" and "suffer". Now you know that in the Aramaic - Greek comparisons that we do, many times an Aramaic word has multiple meanings, and the Greek witnesses split on which one to take.

In this case, we have a dual meaning word in Greek, and a split choice between the Peshitta and OS. Is it not then still possible to argue (even from the Greek) that the Peshitta has a better reading over OS. Of course, "enduring" and "suffering" appear to be related concepts in both languages. So perhaps it is not a huge error at all, but simply a need for more clarity of definition? What do you think?

Then you (Dave) say:

Overall, a great job on this article ! I hope to see even more examples from Aphrahat and others, as well as The Diatessaron.

Thank you!


I do think the Greek (Zorba) is our friend , not an adversary, as Trimm seems to treat it. The Greek all came from the Peshitta and is a very powerful witness in all of its mss. for Peshitta Primacy. The Byzantine text agrees generally with The Peshitta text (75%) against The Alexandrian. But you have also shown how many Alexandrian readings also came from The Peshitta.


I have often said that the Greek can be my best friend because it contains evidence of the mistranslation and bows down to Peshitta, just as LXX bows down to its Hebrew master. What Trimm does is use clearly sueprior majority readings in both Peshitta and Byzantine against the Peshitta. Now that we know who did Old Syriac though, this is beyond irrelevant.


Therefore, we should learn and use Greek as skillfully as possible in our demonstrations. William Norton states his belief that The Apostles would have commissioned a Greek translation of the gospels and epistles and then authorized the final version before sending it out . I find this very convincing.


I agree. My point has been that following just the Greek has been the problem. Not to discard the Greek, but to study both. Obviously though, I believe that the Peshitta still has the superior readings in so many cases, a fact that you also acknowledge.


That does not mean the Greek is a perfect translation; there is no such thing as a perfect translation.
It would mean that The Greek (Majority Text) would have been a very accurate and faithfully executed work which represented the original as well as humanly possible.
The translation work would not be the God breathed word, as The Peshitta is, but then most of the world must rely on a translation of the originals.

That translation is very well documented and supported in its accuracy and can illuminate the possible meanings in many places in The Peshitta. It was undoubtedly made early in the first century. We have a treasure trove of early witnesses in the Greek mss. , especially in the Byzantine text, but also in the other types.

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fkrwbw 0ml$[/font]

Dave B


Thanks for your input as it is greatly appreciated.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Messages In This Thread
I now have a website! - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-17-2004, 11:45 PM
[No subject] - by judge - 03-18-2004, 12:27 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 03-18-2004, 03:57 PM
Re: I now have a website! - by The Thadman - 03-20-2004, 06:44 AM
Re - by Larry Kelsey - 03-20-2004, 11:41 PM
Re: Website update and thanks! - by abudar2000 - 03-21-2004, 11:43 AM
[No subject] - by gbausc - 03-21-2004, 08:35 PM
[No subject] - by Rob - 03-21-2004, 08:46 PM
Akhi Dave - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-22-2004, 02:43 AM
1979 Syriac Bible - by gbausc - 03-22-2004, 03:37 PM
Website update! - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-23-2004, 01:21 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 03-23-2004, 05:46 PM
AWESOME! - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-24-2004, 04:02 AM
Re: AWESOME! - by Paul Younan - 03-24-2004, 04:36 AM
Re: Website update and thanks! - by judge - 03-25-2004, 10:56 AM
Ancient Evidence - by gbausc - 03-25-2004, 04:07 PM
I remember - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-26-2004, 04:26 AM
Re: Ancient Evidence - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-26-2004, 04:50 AM
Re: Ancient Evidence - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-26-2004, 04:53 AM
[No subject] - by gbausc - 03-27-2004, 01:52 PM
Mark 5:26 - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 03-27-2004, 10:21 PM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 07-03-2004, 10:45 PM
My website - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 07-04-2004, 02:30 AM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 07-04-2004, 04:46 AM
Peshitta Adobe pdf - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 07-04-2004, 01:30 PM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 07-22-2004, 04:50 AM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 08-07-2004, 11:39 PM
Gowra question - by Zechariah14 - 08-11-2004, 04:15 PM
Re: Gowra question - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 08-23-2004, 11:28 PM
Re: Gowra question - by Zechariah14 - 08-26-2004, 12:32 AM

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