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1 Corinthians 8:6
#1
Can someone help me translate this verse from the Aramaic into English?

thanks,

MGer
Matt. 5:17-19.
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#2
Man what a coincidence, I was just writing on the "Fathership" of Jesus and already dealt with this verse!

I'll give it a try before an expert can give you a better one:

1Corinthians 8:6

But to us there is one, God the Father, where all (and we) are from by Lord YHWH Jesus Messiah where all (and we) are from.

Whether I have the "by" right, I do not know. But I do know that the first part definitely says that to us there is one (God) who is "God the Father". Again, this may offend trinity people, but this is what the Peshitta says. So no naughty business now ye hear!
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#3
I am not good in Aramaic so my translation depends on Hebrew translation of the Aramaic text of 1 Corinthians 8:6

Ella lan dilan khad hu ALAHA AVA dkol minneh wakhanan beh. wkhad MARYA Yeshu' mshikha dkol biydeh aph khanan biydeh.

But to(for) us there is One ALAHA the FATHER of whom came (into being) all things, and we in Him, and One MARYA Yeshu' Meshikha, by whom are all things, and we by Him.

* MARYA is YHWH in OT Peshitta which is translated as Kyrios in Greek NT. Kyrios is also the word used in Septuagint for Adonai or YHWH. The Jews read YHWH as Adonai (Kyrios) or HaShem.

I hope this might help. Any correction is appreciated.
One of the first owners of the facsimile of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802837867/ref=nosim/ultimyourulti-20"><b>Codex Leningrad</b></a>
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#4
6 (MUR) yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we also by him.
6 (LAMSA) To us there is one God, the Father, from whom comes every thing and by whom we live; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


denotes 2 separate individuals again. no idioms there either.
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#5
Dave, I thought it was agreed that theology was to be kept off here, yet you even go so far as to say that the Peshitta says what it doesn't say. Please refrain from doing so. The verse does not say there are two persons.

What we do see from the verse is:

1) There is one God, and that is "God the Father".

2) Jesus is called MarYah here.

If you want to believe that MarYah is different from God Abba, "God the Father" that is up to you, but do not say on this forum what the Peshitta does not. That is all I wanted to say.
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#6
I have private msgd you Dave, so if you want to discuss further, it is done away from the forum.
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#7
Thank you men, for your help with this.

I have heard that the word "MarYah" can only mean "YHVH" and never be a term for "Master" like the word "Adonai" can in hebrew. Is this true? Is it ever used any other way, but to refer to YHVH?

Please don't get into a theological fight over this, I am just curious if you guys have researched this further.

I think I'll sit down and do my best to translate it from the hebrew translation of the Peshitta, which I do have. I'm just curious how close I'll get to what is typed here. I am also curious why Lamsa and the other guy referrenced use the word "Lord" with lower-case "ord" in it instead of "LORD" if it is true that MarYah can only mean YHVH.

Curious...

MGer
Matt. 5:17-19.
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#8
I'm not discussing theology. I'm stating the sentence structure. It denotes 2 separate individuals in relation to the former post of yesterday. I'm looking for the title of Lord GOD being applied to Jesus, so far I'm not finding it.

The post from MG just happens to be another one where GOD and Jesus are mentioned together so I want to see if the title is actually applied someplace in the new testament scripture.

So far it is not. I don't think it will, since it would bring that particular book into question within the peshitta canon against all other accepted books.

You have no worries from me on the theology interest chris, nor would you need to "attempt" to assert yourself. My interest is in the translation, and the correct title applied without additional word usage as victor did to his translation. I'm also comparing Murdocks and Lamsa's translation along side to see what they came up with. So far they agree together.

You have no worries.
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#9
Hi Akh MGEr it is no problem, I always want to help bring people to the Peshitta. MarYah is used for God and no other in the POT, PNT and in the Aramaic religious communities. Furthermore, Jesus is called Alaha in the PNT, which again is only used for God (Eloha in Hebrew, singular of Elohim).

Why Lamsa do Lord instead of LORD? His bias I guess. He didn't seem to believe that Jesus is God and made a lot of concessions to the KJV. e.g. In Jude, he writes 10,000 like the KJV while it isn't numbered (the number of saints).
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#10
Dave, the PNT has Jesus called MarYah many times, and once that I know it calls Him Alaha.
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#11
It is very theological of you to say that the verse speaks of "two persons". Because it doesn't say that. Alaha = MarYah = Jesus. So please don't say that when both are mentioned in the one verse, that it means two persons, because it doesn't say that. Only discuss what it says. Theology you can argue elsewhere, or even with me in private. But not here. This is the Peshitta board.
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#12
From what I understand, there is the title of LORD GOD, and then there is the title of Lord.

These are 2 separate titles correct? anyone.

This is what I'm looking for. Was Jesus explicitly called "The LORD GOD Jesus." I want to narrow this aspect down to this very title, if it was placed in reference to Jesus.

If people feel I'm infringing on the theology aspect, I'll stop right here.
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#13
Dave, to discuss if Jesus was called Lord God Jesus is fine, that is discussing what the Peshitta says. To say that the Peshitta says there are two persons there is theology, especially false, as MarYah = Alaha.

Answer. Yes. Jesus is called there MarYah Yeshua M'Shikka. Lord YHWH Jesus Messiah.

He is called many times MarYah (which is Lord YHWH, Mara is just "Lord") in the PNT and also Alaha.
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#14
"These are 2 separate titles correct? anyone.
"

Yes. Mara = Lord. MarYah is Lord YHWH, so Lord God coz God = YHWH
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#15
ok, I don't wanna turn this into a spat here, just looking at sentence structure.

Here's Chris's translation that he posted:

Quote:But to us there is one, God the Father, where all (and we) are from by Lord YHWH Jesus Messiah where all (and we) are from.

Then Dan's:

Quote:But to(for) us there is One ALAHA the FATHER of whom came (into being) all things, and we in Him, and One MARYA Yeshu' Meshikha, by whom are all things, and we by Him.

Then the 2 I posted:

Quote:6 (MUR) yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we also by him.
6 (LAMSA) To us there is one God, the Father, from whom comes every thing and by whom we live; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ok, what I wanna know, is the "and" there between the 2 titles listed in the Peshitta, as listed in 3 of the 4 translations. This is why I'm saying the sentence structure points towards a distinction of 2.

Again, I want this to remain calm here. I'm looking at this carefully.
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