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Friday Crucifixion?
I stated:
Quote:7: Jesus rose early on the 1st day of the week (Sunday), not late on the 7th day of the week (Saturday).

Phil quipped:
Quote:And exactly where does it say that ANYWHERE in scripture??????? It doesn't does it, more guesswork again, Jim.

Hey Phil, have you ever read Mark 16:9 before? I it is.

"But, at dawn, in the 1st day of the week, He arose, and appeared first to Maryam Magd'laytha', the one seven demons were cast out from." -The Eastern Peshitta text, my translation.

Don't like the Aramaic Scriptures? I do...but here are some standard English translations of the Greek text.

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." -The KJV

"Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons." -The NASB

"Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons." -The ESV

Phil surmised:
Quote:When Mariam got there early in the morning he was gone already, this does not mean he rose a few hours or minutes earlier, this indicates nothing!

It sure doesn't indicate that He arose on Saturday, does it Phil! Especially since Mark 16:9 clearly says He arose the 1st day of the week, not the 7th day. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Phil griped:
Quote:Seems you haven't read my post thoroughly, AS USUAL!

Actually it wasn't your post, it was cut and pasted from some other persons posts, and I did indeed read their words. Why do you edit other peoples posts and try to pass them off as your own statements? That is not being honest.

The fact is, a Wednesday crucifixion will not work at all, with what is written in The Scriptures. The sooner you understand this, the better.

What I showed you can't be rectified, no matter how hard you might try...I know, because for years I have watched people who thought they could...only to see them fail. Why? because it is not possible to make it work with what is written in The Scriptures.

Must I go over all the 7 points again, Phil?

The Aramaic Scriptures are faithful...Yes indeed.

I have seen some people try to make some hay out of the statements in Luke 23:56 and Mark 16:1, which show that the women prepared spices both before and after the Sabbath, but it seems quite clear to me that they prepared spices sometime, say from 3:30pm until sundown that Friday late afternoon till sundown, which could have been about 7pm that time of year. Then they rested on the Sabbath day from Friday sundown till Saturday sundown....then the Sabbath ended...and they continued their work of preparation that evening, and looks like they needed more, so they bought more that evening after the Sabbath.

So they worked on the spices a few hours before the Sabbath (Luke 23:56), then rested on the Sabbath, then when the Sabbath was over they worked on the spices again for a few hours, buying some more at the store, before they were ready to bring them to the tomb early the next morning right before the sunrise.

I don't see a conflict with what is written there, or any need that two Sabbaths happened from the time of the crucifixion till the resurrection. Just one will do just fine.

So, they prepared the spices from about 3:30 to about 7pm on Friday night, rested on the Sabbath/Saturday from sundown Fri night to sundown Sat night...then about 7pm Saturday night, after the Sabbath had ended, they went to buy more spices and continued to prepare them that evening, then they got up very early on Sunday/1st day of the week before sunrise, bringing the spices (Luke 24:1) which they had been working on, since both before the Sabbath late on Friday afternoon, and then from about 7pm on Saturday night after the Sabbath had ended, till they went to bed that evening, (unless they stayed up all night to work on them) then they left to anoint the body of Jesus in the tomb sometime before the sun rose that Sunday morning.

No problem there. Is there anything in what is written in Scripture showing that this can't be how it happened?
So why do you think the early writings like the Didache, Didascalia, and Apostolic Constitutions all make reference to the change of the fast days from the first and fifth days of the week to the fourth and sixth days? The testimonies that are preserved on this change, point to the arrest of Yeshua on the 4th day and His death on the paraskeue(6th day or Friday). There are also a few liturgical traditions that preserved the foot washing on the 3rd day of the week(Tuesday) which would have preceded the arrest on Wednesday.

I can't seem to find any of the really early testimonies pointing to a Wednesday crucifixion, they all point to Friday.
I guess you have not read the Didascalia then, particularly chapter 21. It explains the three days and nights.

At six o'clock therefore on Friday He suffered, and these hours during which our Lord was crucified have been reckoned a day, afterwards it was' again dark for three hours, and it was reckoned a night; and again from the ninth hour till the evening, three hours, a day; and again afterwards the night of Passion Sabbath; but in the Gospel of Matthew it is thus written, that " in the evening of the Sabbath, when the first day of the week dawned, came Mary, and another Mary, the Magdalene, to see the sepulchre. And there was a great earthquake, for the angel of the Lord came down and rolled the stone." And again the Sabbath day. Then three hours of the night after the Sabbath, in which our Lord slept [and rose], and the saying was fulfilled (marg. Take heed !) that "it is required of the Son of Man that He should pass through the heart of the earth, three days and three nights," as it is written in the Gospel. Again, it is written in David, " Behold, thou hast appointed my days by measure," because therefore these days and nights are made shorter. Thus it is written, "In the night therefore, as the first day of the week dawned, He was seen by Mary Magdalene, and by Mary the daughter of James; and in the night of the first day of the week He went in to Levi, and then He was seen also by us."

The book begins with the following:

" IN the name of the Father Almighty, and of the Eternal Word and only Son, and of the Holy Ghost, one true God. We begin to write the
Book Didascalia as the holy Apostles of our Lord appointed to us, with regard to the presiding officers of the Holy Church, and the Canons and the Laws for believers as they commanded in it.

We, then, twelve Apostles of the only Son, the Everlasting Word of God, our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus the Christ, being assembled with one accord in Jerusalem the city of the great King, and with us our brother Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles, and James the Bishop of the above mentioned city, have established this Didascalia,
It's best to stick with what The Bible, and The Church, and all The Church teachers since the beginning have always I are certainly free to changed things around in your version of The Bible, and interpret doctrines and teachings the way you like best, if you desire, but, on this one, you are about 2000 years too late to reveal when it took place. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

You see, Comas or no comas, the early Church and its teachers are unanimous in their teaching on this matter, as to when it took place.

You would think that because there were no Comas there in the ancient manuscripts, that there would be some confusion on the subject...but alas...they all say the same thing about when it was...and they don't say it was on Wednesday...Nope.

They, The Church, knew then when it was, and we, The Church, know now when it was, not because of a Coma placement in the text, but, because they/we just know from the teaching of The Apostles, passed down through each successive generation, without change.

Sure...some folks who think they know better can start up a "Church" that remembers the death of our Lord on a Wednesday and His resurrection on a Saturday if they like... and they could maybe call it....

"The Wednesday Crucifiction and the Saturday Resurrection Church."

And yes...I spelled that right there. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Now, looking at the text, and translated fresh from the Aramaic New Testament... and with no Comas!!!

Mark 16:9 "But at dawn in the first of the week He arose and was shown first unto Maryam Magd'laitha' she from whom seven demons were driven out of." Literal Aramaic text translation

Luke 23:43 "Eshu' said unto him Amiyn I say unto you that today you will be with me in Pardaysa." Literal Aramaic text translation.

I know you like the Greek text best, so here they are, and without the Comas as without a preconceived idea, how does it read?

Mark 16:9 "Now having risen early the first of the week He appeared first to Mary the Magdalene from whom he had cast out seven demons." Literal Greek translation

Luke 23:43 "And He said to him truly to you I say today with me you will be in the Paradeiso." Literal Greek translation

As to The Messiah being able to be in two places at one time...I hope you know who The Messiah actually is.

Ivan Panin, you say? Ok...

Mark 16:9 "Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary : Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons." Ivan Panin's Numeric New Testament: English translation.

Luke 23:43 "And he said to him, Amen I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in : Paradise." Ivan Panin's Numeric New Testament: English translation.

Some further edifying reading...

The Didache, from about 70-80 A.D.

"But, every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned."

The Letter of Barnabas, from about 80-90 A.D.

"We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"

Ignatius of Antioch, from about 110 A.D.

"Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but, living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death." (Letter to the Magnesians)

Justin Martyr, from about 150 A.D.

"But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead."

"But, Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,..."


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