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"Aliens" are demons?
#1
IF there is any reality behind "UFO" encounters, they can only be demonic activity. I think all these supposed anal probes could have been avoided if the abductees had simply rebuked the "aliens" like:

??? but Antony at once set out for the mountain. Yet once more the enemy [the devil], seeing his zeal and wishing to check it, threw in his way a large disc of silver. Antony, understanding the deceit of the Evil One, stood and looked at the disc and confuted the demon in it, saying, ???Whence a disc in the desert? This is not a trodden road, and there is no track of any faring this way. And it could not have fallen unnoticed, being of huge size. And even if it had been lost, the loser would certainly have found it had he turned back to look, because the place is a desert. This is a trick of the devil. You will not hinder my purpose by this, Satan; let this thing perish with thee.??? And as Antony said this, it disappeared like smoke before the face of a fire.

[2] Athanasius, St. Antony of the Desert, trans. by J. B. McLaughlin, TAN Books and Publishers, Rockford, Ill., 1995, p. 16.

Shlama, Craig
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#2
Thanks for that quote Craig! I am soon writing on this.

I have already written on my site, lots of things about the fallen angels in the old times also. The 'gods' of many ancient religions did exist, every myth has some truth. They were simply fallen angels. And as Bible, Talmud, Psedepigrapha and many other sources say, they had offspring of giants, monsters, dinosaurs etc

Many protestants try to deceive by saying sons of God in Gen 6:1-4 are sons of Adam, but the existance of countless giants in the OT times speaks otherwise!

If you have more on this let me know <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->
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#3
Some of my wierd thoughts:

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#4
Quote:If you have more on this let me know <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

If you enjoyed that I think you'll be interested in the glossary entries that I will eventually get around to making for topics like "Satana" in my html version of Paul's translation.

Shlama, Craig
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#5
drmlanc Wrote:Some of my wierd thoughts:

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I'll read through them. I've already got picked out an instance of over eagerness to criticize Catholicism:

Quote:The books of Enoch and Jubilees (not part of our Canon thanks to the Council of Laodicea, e.g. Catholics!)

You can hardly blame Catholics for this, since Judaism left it out of their canon, and of all the Christian groups only the Ethiopians canonized those two books. Moreover even in the time of Y'shu they existed only in Greek. And anything that didn't have a documented continous line of existence in Hebrew or Aramaic wasn't even considered for canonization byJudaism (and I agree with them on that).

Quote:Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) along with the oldest known copy of scripture known to man: The scroll of Isaiah. Whatever was in these books was obviously very important to these Christians.

Whatever the people at Qumran were, they weren't Christians:

"...there is one more point that needs to be addressed-- the dates of these scrolls.

Most of them are well before the common era--perhaps as early as 150 BC. A lot of targums seem to be dated to about 120 BC. Only a handful are in the common era, with the latest to about 68 AD, and they never identify the Mashiach directly either (although the Resurrection Fragment may indicate an indirect influence one way or the other). In any case, the bottom line is most are well before Y'shua HaMashiach's time and those that are not had over thirty years to "get the message" and reflect it in the writings, and this wasn't done either." (Andrew Gabriel Roth)

Quote: From The Book of Jasher (mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and II Samuel 1:18) translated from Hebrew to English in 1840:

[Chapter 4:18] says," And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

The different books claiming to be the "Book of Jasher" are generally considered frauds:

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I've also found the list of problems posted on a board by someone who didn't give the original website he obtained it from:

Questionable and problematic teachings from Jasher

Jasher 3:23-- An angel of the Lord calls Enoch from heaven and wished to make him reign over sons of God as he had reigned over
sons of men upon Earth.

Jasher 3:38 -- Mentions snow before the flood. This doesn't seem possible because there wasn't any rain yet according to Genesis
2:5-6 and 7:4.

Jasher 22:46, 47 & 54 -- Sounds exactly like Job 1:6-8 with Satan talking to God.

Jasher 8 - Celestial events recorded at the birth of Abram. There is a star from the East seen by wise men and conjurors, which
sounds similar to the birth of Christ.

Jasher 43:40-46 - A wolf speaks to Jacob. Biblically the only animal that speaks is Balaams' ass (Numbers 22:28-30.)

Jasher 44:62-68 - This passage is bizarre. God has an 11 month old baby talk and tell of his mother's (Potiphar's wife) advances
toward Joseph.

Then there are the wars of Jacob and his sons - Chapters 34, 35, and 37-40. And also the wars of Zepho (of Chittim) and Angeas,
King of Africa (which is Dinhabah) chapters 61:23-25, 62:25-27, 63:10-35, and 64. I am putting these into the questionable category
(although they could be somewhat possible) because they are not in the Bible and this overview is based on a biblical evaluation
of Jasher.

Contradictions between Jasher and The Bible

Jasher 13:5 says that Abram went to the land of Canaan at the age of 50 then back to Haran and back to Canaan at age 75, Genesis
12:4 states that Abram was 75 when he departed Haran.

Jasher 18:9 states that one of the angels tells Abraham that Sarah will have a son, but Gen. 17:16 says that God told Abraham.

Jasher 22:44-45 says the Lord got the idea of presenting Isaac as an offering from Isaac's boast to Ishmael. We know, of course,
that God is sovereign and as it says in Gen. 22:1-2 & 12 that the Lord was testing Abraham.

Genesis 28:5 states that Isaac sent Jacob to Padan-aram unto Laban but Jasher 29:11 says that he fled to the house of Eber and
hid there for 14 years.

Jasher 47:9 says Isaac dies, according to the chronology of Jasher, Joseph was in Egypt but in Gen. 35:29 Isaac died before Joseph
had his dreams.

Simeon could not be bound in Jasher 51:37 but in Genesis. 42:24 Simeon is bound before their eyes.

Jasher 51:26-32 -- The brothers tell Joseph (whom they don't recognize) that they are looking for their brother (him). Genesis 42:6-14.

Jasher 78:12-13 -- Pharaoh proclaims no more straw but same amount of bricks (before Moses goes to Pharaoh.) Exodus 5:1,7-8
says it happened after Moses confronts Pharaoh.

Jasher 80:1 "and at the end of two years the Lord sent Moses to Pharaoh" while Exodus 7:14-15 says, "The Lord said unto Moses
get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning.

Jasher 80:2-51 lists these Plagues;
1. Waters into blood (v. 3) / Exodus 7:20
2. Frogs (v. 6) / Exodus 8:6
3. Lice (v. 10) / Exodus 8:17

4. The Lord sent all kinds of beasts into Egypt and destroyed all Egypt ( v.13) / Not in Exodus
5. Fiery serpents, scorpions, mice, weazles, toads (v. 14) / Not in Exodus
6. Flies, hornets, fleas, bugs, gnats (v. 15) / Exodus 8:24
7. All reptiles and winged animals came and grieved the Egyptians (v.16) / Not in Exodus
8. God ordered the Sulanuth from the sea, she had long arms, 10 cubits in length and she went upon the roofs and uncovered the
raftering and flooring and stretched forth her arm and removed locks and bolts and opened the houses of Egypt. (v. 19-21) / Not
in Exodus
9. Pestilence (v.24) / Exodus 9:3
10. Burning inflammation (v. 27) / Not in Exodus
11. Boils (v. 28) / Exodus 9:10
12. Hail and fire (v. 30-31) / Exodus 9:23
13. Locusts (v. 33) / Exodus 10:13
14. Darkness (v.36) / Exodus 10:22
15. First born killed (v. 43) / Exodus 12:29

Wholly Unbiblical Portions of Jasher

In Jasher 42:30-41, Rachel talks to Joseph from the grave. This is of course necromancy and is an abomination unto the Lord
(Deuteronomy 18:11-12).

According to 53:18-22 Benjamin used a "map (or chart) of stars" to find Joseph. Deuteronomy 18:10 forbids this. It is an abomination
to be "an observer of times" (astrologer).

Judah threatens Joseph 54:1-68 with annulations but Genesis 44:14-34 is a plea for Benjamin's release.

Chapter 71 of Jasher states that Moses was 18 years old when he left Egypt. (Could this be Rabbinical tradition?) He didn't go to
Midian but to Cush and becomes king (72:34-36) and is king over Cush for forty years (73:2), then he goes to Midian where Reuel
puts him in prison for 10 years because Reuel thinks Moses is wanted by the Cushites. In the book of Acts (7:23-30) Stephen,
inspired by the Holy Spirit, stated the Moses was in Egypt for 40 Years before going to Midian for another 40 years.

Jasher 81:3-4 claims that the Israelites sojourned in Egypt for 210 years whereas the Scripture says in Exodus 12:40-41 it was 430
years.

Jasher 81:40-41 says that all but Pharaoh perished in the Red Sea. Pharaoh thanks the Lord and the Lord sends an angel who casts
him upon the land of Ninevah where Pharaoh reigned for a long time. Scripture (Exodus 14:23 & 28) states that all perished.

Jasher 32:1-40 -- Esau comes to harm Jacob but angels of the Lord scare Esau, v.55 Esau fears Jacob. Genesis 33:3 Jacob bows
seven times to Esau.

Jasher 43:35 -- Isaac went from Hebron to comfort Jacob, his son, because Joseph is dead (sold). Gen. 35:27-29 Isaac died before
Joseph even dreamed his dreams.

Shlama, Craig
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#6
drmlanc Wrote:Some of my wierd thoughts

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You quote antiquated translations like the KJV which use "kill" instead of the more accurate "murder", even in KJV English the word "kill" had a meaning of premeditated murder. You don't address the parts of Tanakh that praise righteous war. And, I think you wrongly interpret some of the other verses like:

Quote:Luk 3:14 And the soldiers also asked him saying, What shall we do? And he said to them, Do not molest any man, and do not accuse any man; your own wages should be enough for you.
-Molest: abuse, afflict, persecute, torment, attack, harm, injure etc (from Collins Paperback Thesaurus)

Notice that "your own wages should be enough for you", Yokhanan is talking about soldiers or police who would extort or intimidate money from civilians. If he meant don't "attack, harm, injure, etc" then soldiers couldn't have even functioned as soldiers and there would have been no way for them to live on their "own wages."

Shlama, Craig
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#7
Thanks for Jasher stuff. Perhaps the version we have are corrupted from the original. But even if they are corrupt from start, the point is that this was believed at one time, I hear even Talmud says it.

As for killing, yes I know of the Tanakh and killing. But in the NT we have a totally different picture.

1) Love your enemies. How do you love the one you kill and send to hell?

2) Do violence to no man.

3) Treat others how you want to be treated. No longer eye for an eye...

Yeshu' seemed to make a lot of the commands stricter, e.g. adultery, remarriage and violence.

btw PLEASE answer my questions about divorce and remarriage. I wonder if people's unwillingness to answer is if they perhaps are married to divorced women! I have many questions in that thread in this forum, and in the mess jud forum.
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#8
drmlanc Wrote:1) Love your enemies. How do you love the one you kill and send to hell?

You only have the right to let your enemies murder you. You do not have the right in the Scriptures to stand by and let anyone murder anyone other than yourself. And we ourselves become guilty of crimes if we let criminals run loose because we are afraid to kill them and send them to Gehenna. That is putting a higher value on the life of criminals than victims and society itself would break down.


Quote:2) Do violence to no man.

Unless the Scriptures require it. Y'shu used violence to clear the Temple of the money lenders, etc. Several centurions (professional killers (not murders)) in the Breeta Khadta are spoken of quite highly by Y'shu, and Cornelius was selected by Elaha Himself to be brought into the faith and was not told to change his job because it was wrong to "kill."


Quote:3) Treat others how you want to be treated. No longer eye for an eye...

Yes. So you would let the Nazis, or the Japanese, or the Muslims conquer the world unopposed and enslave anyone who they didn't ethnically cleanse? Is that treating others as you would want to be treated? If you were an Iraqi citizen would you think the Europeans your neighbors, who were happy to conduct filthy business transcations with a corrupt regime while leaving you doomed to a life without political, economic, and religious freedom and ultimately eternity in Gehenna without Meshikha? Or, would you consider the Americans your neighbors, for striking down the genocidal dictator who used WMD against his own people, and bringing in democracy and freedom of religion and thus perhaps a chance to inherit eternal life?


Quote:btw PLEASE answer my questions about divorce and remarriage. I wonder if people's unwillingness to answer is if they perhaps are married to divorced women! I have many questions in that thread in this forum, and in the mess jud forum.

A woman who divorces her husband may never remarry. A man who divorces his wife may only remarry if she committed adultery. How one deals with situations where one of the spouses is an unbeliever is more complicated, as in Paul, and I wonder if Ezra 10 would come into play as well.

Shlama, Craig
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#9
""You only have the right to let your enemies murder you. You do not have the right in the Scriptures to stand by and let anyone murder anyone other than yourself.""

For the second phrase, where in the Scriptures is that? Surely, I would do all I could to stop a murder, even at my own life, but if I have to kill the aggressor?

""And we ourselves become guilty of crimes if we let criminals run loose because we are afraid to kill them and send them to Gehenna. That is putting a higher value on the life of criminals than victims and society itself would break down.
""

Where does the NT say such things?

""Unless the Scriptures require it. Y'shu used violence to clear the Temple of the money lenders, etc. Several centurions (professional killers (not murders)) in the Breeta Khadta are spoken of quite highly by Y'shu, and Cornelius was selected by Elaha Himself to be brought into the faith and was not told to change his job because it was wrong to "kill."
""

Do no violence. I again like to see your verses Akhi. Look at what Jesus said when Peter struck the guard! And yes, there was an "angry Jesus", but did He ever hit someone?

""Yes. So you would let the Nazis, or the Japanese, or the Muslims conquer the world unopposed and enslave anyone who they didn't ethnically cleanse?""

It is not my job to kill others. Or even to worry about such wordly things. It is my job to follow Jesus.

Believe you me, for me this is one of the harder things of Christianity. I am a born fighter and found great pleasure in beating people up (in a good way... like a good old wholesome bar fight), especially when they were 'bad guys' - but what good is your faith, if you can't make sacrifices?

What about when Yeshua' told us what to do when getting robbed. Did he say, punch the guy's lights out and rob him back?

""A woman who divorces her husband may never remarry. A man who divorces his wife may only remarry if she committed adultery. How one deals with situations where one of the spouses is an unbeliever is more complicated, as in Paul""

Finally something Scriptural. I believe Paul teaches that we are not to divorce in the case of an unbeliever, but if the unbeliever "leaves", the believer is free. To me that indicates they are free from the marriage, as in death, and can remarry. But besides adultery, death and "believer/unbeliever" it seems no divorce and remarriage allowed. What if a non-beleiver left a non-beleiver, and the "victim" non-believer became a Christian? Tricky. Man, it is easier to marry virgins! In the case of one leaving another for no proper reason, the "victim" cannot remarry can they? Because they are both still properly married? Or is in this case the vicitm free? Surely it seems reasonable that if a woman left you, you are free from the marriage right?

Also Akhi Craig, it would be good to hear Messianic Judaism's opinion on what constitutes marriage. For me, I do not see that government-given certificate as marriage. Is sex between a non-married male and a non-married female considered marriage? Where does the NT actually say how one is married?
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#10
Quote:Where does the NT say such things?

The NT doesn't need to say such things because it built on the Tanakh. Without something specific by Y'shu Meshikha or the NT we can always assume that things were left unchanged.

Quote:Do no violence.

You're ignoring the context of Yokhanan's statement. The way you interpret it would make Y'shu a sinner for using violence.


Quote:I again like to see your verses Akhi.

You have Moshe and the Prophets. What more do you want?

Quote:Look at what Jesus said when Peter struck the guard!

So Y'shu said to Kefa, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"

Y'shu didn't rebuke Kefa for it, He only states something to the effect that this must happen to fulfill prophecy.

Quote:And yes, there was an "angry Jesus", but did He ever hit someone?

The below sounds like He actually used that whip of rope, and if didn't then He seemed willingly if the threat of it wasn't enough:

"When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables." (John 2:15)


Quote:It is not my job to kill others. Or even to worry about such wordly things. It is my job to follow Jesus.

You worry about such worldly things on your website.

Shlama, Craig
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#11
""You have Moshe and the Prophets. What more do you want?
""
I want you to show me where Jesus actually hit someone or allowed us to hit people.

""You worry about such worldly things on your website.
""

I don't tell people to kill GWB before it's too late <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> I want to warn people that their are "powers in the air" that attack us and we must prepare by being believers.
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#12
Okay, if even WISHING someone harm is murder according to Yeshu', how then can we kill or attack someone? Surely you wish your enemy harm in battle!
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