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Native called "Nazarenes"....
#1
Shlama Akhay,

There was some questions about this quote from ancient Persia:

Quote:This period of peace and prosperity for the Christian community lasted until the reign of Bahram II (276-293AD). First persecutions included that of Bahram's Christian concubine Candida, one of the first Persian Martyrs. The persecutions were supported and even promoted by the powerful high priest Kirdir who in one inscription declares how Ahriman and the idols suffered great blows and continues as follows: "and the Jews (Yahud), Buddists (Shaman), Hindus (Brahman), Nazarenes (Nasara), Christians (Kristiyan), Baptists (Makdag) and Manicheans (Zandik) were smashed in the empire, their idols destroyed, and the habitations of the idols annihilated and turned into abodes and seats of the gods".

...and why the distinction was made between "Nazarenes" and "Christians" during this persecution by the Persian empire. Some have thought that this refers to Jewish vs. Gentile believers, but in fact the native believers in the empire were referred to by the earlier Semitic designation "Nazarenes" without regard to their ethnic background.

The term "Kristyan" refers to those believers who were deported from Greek-speaking lands like Antioch....

From http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/his..._iran1.php :

Quote:In their literature they identify themselves as 'pure ones', 'just ones' or 'people of God'. Distinctions are made between ethnic Christians, nasraye and deported ones and their descendants called Krestyane. They also referred to themselves as misihaye (those who believe in Messiah).
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#2
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhay,

There was some questions about this quote from ancient Persia:

Quote:This period of peace and prosperity for the Christian community lasted until the reign of Bahram II (276-293AD). First persecutions included that of Bahram's Christian concubine Candida, one of the first Persian Martyrs. The persecutions were supported and even promoted by the powerful high priest Kirdir who in one inscription declares how Ahriman and the idols suffered great blows and continues as follows: "and the Jews (Yahud), Buddists (Shaman), Hindus (Brahman), Nazarenes (Nasara), Christians (Kristiyan), Baptists (Makdag) and Manicheans (Zandik) were smashed in the empire, their idols destroyed, and the habitations of the idols annihilated and turned into abodes and seats of the gods".

...and why the distinction was made between "Nazarenes" and "Christians" during this persecution by the Persian empire. Some have thought that this refers to Jewish vs. Gentile believers, but in fact the native believers in the empire were referred to by the earlier Semitic designation "Nazarenes" without regard to their ethnic background.

The term "Kristyan" refers to those believers who were deported from Greek-speaking lands like Antioch....

From http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/his..._iran1.php :

Quote:In their literature they identify themselves as 'pure ones', 'just ones' or 'people of God'. Distinctions are made between ethnic Christians, nasraye and deported ones and their descendants called Krestyane. They also referred to themselves as misihaye (those who believe in Messiah).

Interesting, but some clarity can be found in Jerome's correspondance with Augustine found in LETTERS OF ST. AUGUSTIN: LETTERS LVI TO LXXV (INCLUDING JEROME'S ANSWERS):

Jerome Speaking:
The matter in debate, therefore, or I should rather say your opinion regarding it, is summed up in this: that since the preaching of the gospel of Christ, the believing Jews do well in observing the precepts of the law, i.e. in offering sacrifices as Paul did, in circumcising their children, as Paul did in the case of Timothy, and keeping the Jewish Sabbath, as all the Jews have been accustomed to do. If this be true, we fall into the heresy of Cerinthus and Ebion, who, though believing in Christ, were anathematized by the fathers for this one error, that they mixed up the ceremonies of the law with the gospel of Christ, and professed their faith in that which was new, without letting go what was old. Why do I speak of the Ebionites, who make pretensions to the name of Christian? In our own day there exists a sect among the Jews throughout all the synagogues of the East, which is called the sect of the Minei, and is even now condemned by the Pharisees. The adherents to ]this sect are known commonly as Nazarenes; they believe in Christ the Son of God, 'born of , the Virgin Mary; and they say that He who suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again, is the same as the one in whom we believe. But while they desire to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither the one nor the other. I therefore beseech you, who think that you are called upon to heal my slight wound, which is no more, so to speak, than a prick or scratch from a needle, to devote your skill in the healing art to this grievous wound, which has been opened by a spear driven home with the impetus of a javelin. For there is surely no proportion between the culpability of him who exhibits the various opinions held by the fathers in a commentary on Scripture, and the guilt of him who reintroduces within the Church a most pestilential heresy. If, however, there is for us no alternative but to receive the Jews into the Church, along with the usages prescribed by their law; if, in short, it shall be declared lawful for them to continue in the Churches of Christ what they have been accustomed to practise in the synagogues of Satan, I will tell you my opinion of the matter: they will not become Christians, but they will make us Jews.
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#3
Dear Rob,

The quote is irrrelevant. Both Jerome and Augustine were in Rome/Byzantium and speaking of the circumstances there.

I am talking about Persia and the circumstances there.

In Persia (the empire where the Church of the East was situated), native believers (ethnic Jews or Gentiles) were called "Nazarenes" (in fact, they are still called that today) - and the captive Greek Christians who were brought over by the Persian armies from Roman areas were called by their Greek name "Kristian."
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#4
I see. My point wasn't to say that "Nazarene" couldn't have been be used for the Church of the East. My point was to note that "Nazarenes" was also used in reference to Non-Apostolic believers who still obeyed the Torah.
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#5
I know. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> My point was that the term "Nazarene" meant something in Persia that it didn't mean in Byzantium.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#6
Paul Younan Wrote:The quote is irrrelevant. Both Jerome and Augustine were in Rome/Byzantium and speaking of the circumstances there.
[/quote]

Although both had visited the cities you mentioned them in connection with, Jerome during that period was in Roman "Palestine" (A.D. 386-420), and Augustine was in Hippo-Regius (A.D. 391-430) in Roman Africa (modern day Algeria).

Shlama, Craig
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