10-06-2003, 01:40 AM
Here is teh answer from AGR. At first I didn't liek it as it looks like God contradicts Himself. But I guess the same God who can curse can also lift curses and bless etc. And yeah, Zerubabbel was the ruler of Judea, so there you go. I also used this Zerubabbel stuff ages ago to dispel the myth that the Davidic throne is now in England. The 'throne' that went to England was not the rightful Davidic throne. Zerubabbel was the rightful leader <!-- s
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What About "Jeconiah???s Curse"?
On a related topic another problem frequently raised about Matthew in general has to do with the so-called "curse of Jeconiah" (a.k.a. "Jehoichin" and "Coniah"). Here is how Jeremiah puts it:
"As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear--to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. You will never come back to the land you long to return to."Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah."
Jeremiah 22:24-30 (NIV)
So, it would seem that if our revised understanding of Matthew???s genealogy includes the idea that this is Mary???s lineage, then we have a major problem: The only BIOLOGICAL parent the Messiah has is under a lineage cursed from ruling in Israel!
Or???is it? Let???s look at this curse one feature at a time:
As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off.
But Jeconiah???s descendant, Zerubabel, is written of this way:
"`On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, `I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, `and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."
Haggai 2:22-24
And when Jeremiah says that Jeconiah will never prosper, the opposite happens:
"In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Evil-Merodach became king of Babylon, he released Jehoiachin from prison on the twenty-seventh day of the twelfth month. He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honor higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon. So Jehoiachin put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king's table. Day by day the king gave Jehoiachin a regular allowance as long as he lived."
2 Kings 25:27-30
Jeremiah says, "Record this man as if childless", and yet he has children:
The descendants of Jehoiachin the captive: Shealtiel his son???
1 Chronicles 3:17
Finally, for a man whose descendants are never supposed to rule in Israel, his grandson Zerubabel seems to do pretty well for himself:
"In the second year of King Darius, on the first day of the sixth month, the word of the LORD came through the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest."
Haggai 1:1
Therefore, all the biblical evidence strongly suggests that after Jeconiah had 37 years to think about his sins, he repents and the curse is lifted.
So, with all this evidence in mind, we at last come to the revised list for the third set, which now reads:
Shealtiel
Zerubabel
Abiud
Eliakhim
Azor
Zadok
Akim
Eliud
Eleazar
Matthan
Jacob
Joseph, the FATHER of
Mary, of whom was born
Y???shua, who was called the Messiah
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What About "Jeconiah???s Curse"?
On a related topic another problem frequently raised about Matthew in general has to do with the so-called "curse of Jeconiah" (a.k.a. "Jehoichin" and "Coniah"). Here is how Jeremiah puts it:
"As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear--to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. You will never come back to the land you long to return to."Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah."
Jeremiah 22:24-30 (NIV)
So, it would seem that if our revised understanding of Matthew???s genealogy includes the idea that this is Mary???s lineage, then we have a major problem: The only BIOLOGICAL parent the Messiah has is under a lineage cursed from ruling in Israel!
Or???is it? Let???s look at this curse one feature at a time:
As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off.
But Jeconiah???s descendant, Zerubabel, is written of this way:
"`On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, `I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, `and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."
Haggai 2:22-24
And when Jeremiah says that Jeconiah will never prosper, the opposite happens:
"In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Evil-Merodach became king of Babylon, he released Jehoiachin from prison on the twenty-seventh day of the twelfth month. He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honor higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon. So Jehoiachin put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king's table. Day by day the king gave Jehoiachin a regular allowance as long as he lived."
2 Kings 25:27-30
Jeremiah says, "Record this man as if childless", and yet he has children:
The descendants of Jehoiachin the captive: Shealtiel his son???
1 Chronicles 3:17
Finally, for a man whose descendants are never supposed to rule in Israel, his grandson Zerubabel seems to do pretty well for himself:
"In the second year of King Darius, on the first day of the sixth month, the word of the LORD came through the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest."
Haggai 1:1
Therefore, all the biblical evidence strongly suggests that after Jeconiah had 37 years to think about his sins, he repents and the curse is lifted.
So, with all this evidence in mind, we at last come to the revised list for the third set, which now reads:
Shealtiel
Zerubabel
Abiud
Eliakhim
Azor
Zadok
Akim
Eliud
Eleazar
Matthan
Jacob
Joseph, the FATHER of
Mary, of whom was born
Y???shua, who was called the Messiah