Acts 20:28

[Andrew Gabriel Roth]

Akha Paul & Andrew,

Nice try, but I'm not biting on this.

First of all, you both beg the question by assuming that a reference to our Lord's humanity indicates its own qnoma , and then his Deity indicates its own separate and distinct qnoma , so that this Person (and at least we can agree that Yeshua Meshiaka is a Person) has two qnomas.

To you, a qnoma is an occurrence of a nature , therefore, you interpret any mention of a person's nature to have it's qnoma. I do not see a qnoma as anything less than "self", whether animate or inanimate (himself, itself, herself). If in reference to a person, then that self would be a center of consciousness- a mind or a spirit; That would be the person himself.

OKAY AKHI DAVE, NOW YOU'VE DONE IT AND YOU ARE GOING TO GET WHAT'S COMING TO YOU. I HAVE TRIED TO BE GENTLE AND KIND AND YOU HAVE REPAYED ME WITH INSULTS. I ONLY HAVE TWO CHEEKS, AND IT IS ONLY SINCERE REPENTANCE THAT MERITS 70X7. OTHERWISE, AFTER TWO OR THREE ATTEMPTS, WE SHAKE OFF OUR SANDALS.

FIRST OF ALL YOU HAVE SOME MAJOR CHUTZPAH TO GET ON THIS FORUM AND DICTATE TO PAUL AND MYSELF WHAT WORDS IN OUR NATIVE LANGUAGES CAN AND CANNOT MEAN. SECONDLY, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF THAT AS A MINISTER YOU WOULD INSULT ME IN THE MANNER THAT YOU HAVE. ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF RESPECTFUL DISAGREEMENT? YOU CAME HERE AND ASKED US, AND BECAUSE YOU DID NOT LIKE OUR ANSWER HAVE ACTED EXACTLY LIKE A PAGAN. THIRDLY, YOU HAVE TOTALLY IGNORED THE SCRIPTURE I HAVE POSTED. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO LEARN AND CANNOT DEBATE WITHOUT NAME CALLING, THEN YOU DON'T BELONG HERE.

Two qnome would be two persons; Our Lord never said that He has two qnome; He only refers to one in John 5:26.
(How do you know which qnoma He refers to here? I would think the Divine qnoma already had life in it by its very nature.)

FINE. BUT I DID NOT REALIZE YOU WERE IN A HERETICAL POSITION WHEN I WROTE THIS--THAT YOU WOULD NEED PROOF ON SOMETHING SO BASIC AS TO Y'SHUA'S HUMANITY. THE HUMAN QNOMA OF Y'SHUA IS, AS I HAVE SAID, TAUGHT SYMBOLICALLY IN JOHN 4, LIVING WATER AND PHYSCIAL WATER. ANOTHER PLACE IT APPEARS IS "NOT MY WILL, BUT YOUR WILL FATHER." IF THE HUMAN SIDE OF Y'SHUA IS JUST WINDOW DRESSING, HOW IS IT HE HAS A SEPARATE WILL FROM HIS FATHER AND YET IS ONE WITH HIS FATHER (JOHN 17:11)??? THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT YSHUA IS ONE WITH HIS FATHER YHWH THROUGH THE DIVINE NATURE THAT THEY SHARE, BUT ALSO HE HAS A HUMAN WILL AND A HUMAN QNOMA THAT IS CLEARLY SUBSERVIENT TO THE DIVINE SIDE. ARE YOU A TEACHER OF GENTILES AND UNDERSTAND NOT THESE THINGS?

The incarnation means "God became human". In so doing He had to change His form (Greek has "schemata', from which English derives "schematic") from The Divine to the mortal Human servant. Philippians 2 says that "He divested Himself"; Hebrews 2 says "He became lower than the angels" for the suffering of death. Neither text says that He put on humanity as a cloak.

By the way, if The Son (The Divine qnoma)became lower than the angels for the suffering of death, then that Divine qnoma came to die.
John says "God became flesh", flesh signifying humanity.

He no longer was in The Divine form; His identity was still the same, but no longer was He omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. If we were to believe that He retained all these attributes, then we would have to believe that from infancy, there would have been two centers of consciousness in Him, one that knew all things, and one that knew practically nothing.
That is unthinkable, and is tantamount to saying there were two persons in one body with the same name.

The Council of Chalcedon states

there is no division between His Natures,

yet I hear and read so much that indicates Christians believe otherwise, including you both.
To say that Jesus suffered in His humanity but not in His Divine being sounds like Multiple Personality Disorder , at the very least. Perhaps it is sheer Gnosticism, which teaches that "He" really is "They".

CHALCIDON WAS A SHAM--YOU KNOW YOU ARE TALKING TO THOSE OF US WHO REJECTED IT RIGHT? THE COUNCIL OF EPHESUS WAS ALSO A SHAM, SO DON'T BRING THAT UP EITHER. I HAVE NO PATIENCE FOR PEOPLE TO DRAINED THE ORIGINAL SEMITIC VISION OUT OF THE SCRIPTURES AND PUT A GREEK COUNTERFEIT IN ITS PLACE, UNLESS THEY ARE WILLING TO AT LEAST HEAR THINGS OUT. YOUR KIND OF BACKBITING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED THOUGH, I ASSURE YOU.

Prove to me that every living qnoma is not either a "He" or a "She" , and I will listen further to what you have to say on this matter.

PROVE TO US YOU UNDERSTAND ARAMAIC. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE ORIGINAL ARCHAIC DEFINTION OF QNOMA AND IF YOU REJECT THE TESTIMONY OF ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING ARAMAIC SCHOLARS THEN CONGRATULATIONS. YOUR LEARNING HAS EXCEEDED ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER. NOW ALL YOU NEED IS A BUNCH OF CULTIC FOLLOWERS AND A COMPOUND IN THE JUNGLE. YOU TELL US YOU WERE KICKED OUT OF CHURCHES? PERHAPS IT WAS BECAUSE YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE MESSAGE OF 1 CORINTHIANS 13:1-13.

As to 1 Cor. 11:27, Andrew, your explanation is just another example of your sophistry, as I expected. I suppose swine's blood would have done as well for the "Blood of Jehovah" , according to your way of interpreting this passage .

"All blood is therefore God's blood."

EXCUSE ME, BUT DID YOU READ MY POST? IS SWINE BLOOD FIT FOR A QORBANA? I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT WAS. I SAID THAT WHAT WAS OFFERED TO YHWH WAS OFFERED BECAUSE IT BELONGED TO YHWH AND WAS SET APART FOR SACRED USE. THE BLOOK OF LAMBS WITH BLEMISHES BELONGS TO YHWH TO, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE AN ACCEPTABLE QORBANA. AND IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS ONE DROP OF BLOOD OR CENTIMETER OF LAND OR GRAM OF FLESH ON THIS EARTH OR ANYTHING IN HEAVEN THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YHWH, THEN YOU ARE IN SERIOUS ERROR. THAT IS SOPHISTRY, AND A LOT WORSE.

That is an outrage. This does not strike me as the teaching of God's Spirit.

Shelikha Paul is discussing the blood and body of God and those who partake of the bread and wine unworthily , thus eating and drinking damnation , not discerning Jehovah's body , and you have the audacity to say that the "blood of Jehovah" simply means all blood is His blood, because He has no blood of His own ?

EXCUSE ME AGAIN, BUT DO YOU KNOW A SEMITIC IDIOM WHEN YOU READ IT? CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT BLOOD AND WINE AND OTHER THINGS ARE METAPHORIC IN SUCH A CASE? IS LIVING WATER A LITERAL REFERENCE OR IS IT SYMBOLIC OF ETERNAL LIFE? WHY THEN CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT THE BLOOD OF YHWH IS SYMBOLIC OF THE DIVNE NATURE THAT GIVES ETERNAL LIFE? YOU THINK THAT BECAUSE YOU CAN READ AND HIGHLIGHT A LITTLE ESTRANGELA THAT SUCH A THING PROVES TO US YOU ARE AN ARAMAIC SCHOLAR? IF YOU CAN'T GET THE IDIOMS DOWN, PLEASE DON'T COMPOUND IT WITH THE AUDACITY TO LECTURE US. YOU MIGHT AS WELL SAY THAT THE WINE AT THE LAST SUPPER IS LITERAL BLOOD, WHEN Y'SHUA SIMPLY SAYS, "DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."

IF WE FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC, THEN WHY HAVE YOU NOT PLUCKED OUT YOUR EYE WHEN YOU SINNED LAST? WHY DID YOU NOT HANDLE SNAKES AND DRINK DEADLY POISON AS IT SUGGESTS IN MARK 16? IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE SELECTIVE AT WHAT YOU SEE AS IDIOMATIC AND WHAT YOU DO NOT, AND THE FIRST MISTAKE ANY NOVICE AT ARAMAIC MAKES IS OVER-LITERALISM. GET BEYOND THE DICTIONARIES AND SEE THE TRUTH.

Here is a passage that says "Jehovah's blood" , and we are to believe you when you flatly contradict the word of God ? If Paul meant that Jehovah had no blood, he had one hell of a way of saying it !

WHO IS JEHOVAH? I KNOW YHWH, AND THAT "JEHOVAH" IS SIMPLY A BAD MANGLING OF YHWH'S CONSONANTS WITH THE VOWELS OF ADONAI. WHY DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

Surely he could have used the phrase , "The Blood of Yeshua" , or "the blood of Meshika", so as not to confuse the unlearned.

AND SURELY YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE WHO ARE CONFUSED. I SAY IT AGAIN, WHEN ANYTHING BECOMES A QORBANA--AND I MEAN THAT WHICH IS WORTHY TO BE SO--THAT BEING AND THAT BLOOD BELONGS TO YHWH. WHY IS THIS NOT CLEAR? DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT WHEN YHWH DEDICATED A CITY FOR DESTRUCTION IT WAS GIVEN COMPLETELY TO HIM AS A QORBANA. THE LAMB'S BLOOD BELONGS TO YHWH. THE BLOOD OF MESSIAH BELONGS TO YHWH. IF IT IS QORBANA, IT BELONGS TO YHWH. MAYBE IF I REPEAT MYSELF TEN TIMES ON THE MATTER YOU WILL GET IT. I TRIED BEING PATIENT WITH YOU AND ALL I GOT WAS INSULTS.

He wrote ,"The blood of Jehovah".That means what it says. Jehovah shed His blood for the sins of the world, is the message of the Lord's supper.

JEHOVAH DID NOTHING (JOSHUA 23:7, ISAIAH 42:8). YHWH ALLOWED HIS SON TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF. IF YHWH DIED FOR THREE DAYS THEN THE UNIVERSE WOULD HAVE STOPPED RUNNING. THE MESSAGE OF THE TORAH AND THE NT IS THAT SIN IS WORTHY OF DEATH AND WE NEED A PERFECT SACRIFICE TO DIE IN OUR PLACE. YHWH DOES NOT EVER DIE--NOT FOR A MOMENT. HIS VERY NAME MEANS "THE ETERNAL", BUT I SUPPOSE YOU IN YOUR MINSTERIAL STUDIES FORGOT THAT TOO.

You are really struggling to defend the indefensible here.

God Himself , in The Person of Marya Yeshua, made the sacrifice for sin with His own blood and His own death for all mankind.That is what the gospel is.Nothing less would avail for the atonement of the sins of the world- Glory to His Name, Hallelu-JAH !


If that is Paul's meaning in Cor. , what's the problem with "God's blood" in Acts 20:28 ? Is not all blood God's blood in Acts as in 1 Cor. 11:27 ?

NO, NO, NO AND NO, RESPECTIVELY. KNOW WHEN BLOOD IS LITERAL AND WHEN IT IS NOT AND MAYBE YOU CAN HAVE SOMETHING WORTHWHILE TO SAY.

And please do not compare Jesus with "the Angel of The LORD" in the OT. Jehovah's Name is not in Him or on Him-
He is Jehovah ! He sent the angel of Jehovah and put His Name on the angel ! All angels are His and he sends them, and they worship Him !There are so many passages that show this.

YOU STILL SHOW THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT QNOMA IS. THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME, AND THAT IS YHWH, AND HE GAVE IT TO HIS SON. OTHERWISE, I GUESS YOUR BIBLE HAS THE PASSAGE OF JOHN 17:11 AND HEBREWS 1:3 TORN OUT.

Hebrews 1 asks the question: To which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son... ?"
The Son created the angels !

FIRSTBORN OF CREATION. DO YOU KNOW THE WORD ALSO MEANS "MESSENGER"?

Yeshua is Jehovah, therefore it is proper to say that what Yeshua did, Jehovah did. This is not complicated. "Jesus died" is the same as saying "God died".

ONLY IN THAT THEY SHARED THE SAME NATURE. Y'SHUA THE MAN HAD TO DIE. MEN DIE, NOT YHWH.

Theologians like to complicate things to justify their existence; frankly , we don't need theologians; we need disciples who believe in our LORD Jesus and obey His words.

WE DON'T NEED MINISTERS WHO INSULT PEOPLE AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY.

Andrew,you should practice law or start selling bridges.You would be great at both !

I'M NOT LAUGHING.

Sorry, I would have to give up so much faith and life to believe what you do that it would require a death on my part. I have been through much in my 51 years- 27 years an ordained minister , husband of a beautiful and wonderful woman,and father of twelve beautiful and wonderful children and Grandfather of two.

DON'T BELIEVE ME. YOU ARE STUBBORN AND STIFFNECKED AND TOO SET IN YOUR WAYS TO UNDERSTAND. I HAVE NO WISH TO CONVERT YOU TO A SINGLE POINT. GO ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND LEAVE IT BE.

I have paid a price for my beliefs and been rejected by several churches after preaching the word for a time. My position has been hammered out on the anvil of trial and opposition and forged in heaven. I cannot deny what God has revealed to me and proven in the lab of life. I have seen Him and heard his voice. I cannot go back.

I SEE, SO YOU DO WISH TO BE A CULTIC LEADER. ONLY YOUR REVELATION IS CORRECT. THANKS FOR COMING THEN TO ENLIGHTEN US. DON'T LET THE SCREEN DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT.

I still do not understand what your views of the atonement are. What was the atoning work whose merits satisfied the requirements for removing the sins of the world ?

Y'SHUA WAS THE FULL EMBODIMENT OF THE GODHEAD, THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE ELOHIM, THE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF YHWH'S NATURE. BUT HE WAS ALSO THE SON OF MAN. HIS DIVINE SIDE WAS SEPARATE WHOLLY FROM HIS HUMAN ONE, RESULTING IN SEPARATE WILLS AND SEPARATE WATERS. ONLY BY HIS HUMAN SIDE VOLUNTARILY LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE (JOHN 10) AND KEEPING HIS FATHER'S COMMANDS TO ABIDE PERFECTLY IN YHWH'S LOVE COULD THE ATONEMENT BE MADE. IF YHWH IS SIMPLY KILLING HIMSELF, THEN THERE IS NO SUCH VOLUNTARY COMPONENT AND YOUR FAITH IS WORTHLESS. WE HERE AT PESHITTA.ORG BELIEVE THAT A MAN WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY THE POWER OF YHWH TO JUSTIFY HIS CLAIM THAT HE WAS MESSIAH AND YHWH HIMSELF.

TAKE A SHVITZ DAVE.

ZIL GEMOR! (LOOK IT UP)