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Luke 7:45 split verb: ???LT
#1
Luke 7:45 split verb: ???LT.
Shlama!
Today???s Mass Gospel was Lk 7:36-50 (The sinful woman in Simon the Pharisee house). As usually --since I became a ???Peshitta-holic???--, while preparing my sermon, I consulted the Peshitta and I found this interesting issue in v. 45:

(For you) KJV: ...but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased...

Greek NA27 ???canonized??? text:

...But this (woman) since SHE entered (SHE) didn???t stop...
autj de afhjv eisjlqon ou dielipen

The variant:
L* f1.13 al lat (some latins) SyP SyH Sa(mss) bo (pt)
...But this (woman) since I entered (she) didn???t stop...
autj de afhjv eisjlqen ou dielipen

Let???s see now the Peshitta Text:
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]...tyl4 f tl9d Nm 0h Nyd 0dh[/font]
It???s all about the verb[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] l9 [/font] (to enter). Notice that both FIRST (common) and THIRD FEMENINE (and also 2nd Masculine, but it isn???t relevant here) persons of the singular Perfect Peal, [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] tl9 [/font], WITHOUT VOWELS ARE THE SAME!
So, in this case:
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tle9 [/font] (???alth) = You (m) entered
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]telO9 [/font] (???elath) = She entered
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tOlO9 [/font] (???eleth) = I entered

Therefore, this could confuse Zorba, poor fellow. ANOTHER PROVE OF THE ARAMAIC PRIORITY!

However................... <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
Let???s consider it again without ???passion???: In this particular case, I would think that the translation ???3rd fem??? would be MORE LOGICAL:

1. The woman???s action seems having started certain time AFTER Maran Eshoa entered to Simon???s house. Both ???entrances??? shouldn???t be necessarily simultaneous (as the ???1st person??? choice seems to express).
2. The continuity of actions in 3rd person: ???since SHE entered (SHE) didn???t stop...???
3. The ???1st person??? choice could be influenced by previous v. 44 ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tl9 <tybl [/font] ???...I entered in your house???).
4. In any case, the FULL MEANING of the tale remains intact, since the statement here, after all, is Maran Eshoa???s attitude toward the woman because of her behavior in contrast with Simon???s, leading to the micro-parable about ???Debts and Love??? and final crucial sentence about ???FAITH-THAT-MAKES-LIVE??? (Oh, I love Aramaic!).
5. The most important, from the p.of.v. of the Forum, and I insist on it: This variant --IN TRANSLATION, based on a different VOCALIZATION--, actually didn???t contradict Aramaic Priority at all (you correct me if I???m wrong). As our Elder Brothers the Jews who consider not the Masoretic vowels but the Consonantal Text as sacred, I guess that for Aramaic believers is the Peshitta Text consonants and not vowels (written afterward, of ???relative value???, then) that is considered absolutely sacred and inspired. It might be then a matter of vowels??? alternative...
Thoughts? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0ml4 Jwklkl 0whn [/font]
Ab. Valentin
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#2
You might have been disappointed that the other one was not a split word, but this certainly seems so. You are on fire! <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->

WIth your blessing, that goes straight into BSWA2...
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#3
Luke 7:45. Read "she came" instead of "I came". B (Beza 1598)

I am surprised, though little is on this on the net, and I only find one mss that has this variant of "she", it is in some English versions: Worldwide English and Wycliffe.

Good job!
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#4
Shlama Ab. Vanlentin!

Great observation indeed! <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

Guess what? There's MORE!

There is a word play here, too. Did you catch it?

Luke 7:41-42

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bwx 0rm dxl wwh ty0 0byx Nyrt[/font]
There were two debtors to a certain creditor

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]00m4mx 0rnyd 0wh Byx dx[/font]
One owed him 500 dinarii

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Ny4mx 0rnyd 0nrx0w [/font]
And the other, 50 dinarii

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Qb4 Jwhyrtl (rpml Jwhl 0wh tyldw[/font]
And because they had nothing with which to repay, he forgave them both

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Yhwybxn ryty Jwhnm Lykh 0ny0[/font]
Which of them, therefore, will love (hint: owe) him most?

Translation doesn't do justice.

Looooove it! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

Shlama w'taybutha!
Rob
<font face="Estrangelo (V1.1)" size="4">
hnm Lqt4n hl ty0d wh P0 hl tyld Nmw hl Bhytn ryg hl ty0d Nm
(w4y</font>
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#5
God, I love all you guys. This thread is absolutely incredible and it's such an honor to have this forum be the place where all this work is taking place.

God's really blessed us so with people like all of you on our side! <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

Akhay Valentin w'Rob - these examples are the <!-- s:bomb: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bomb.gif" alt=":bomb:" title="The Bomb" /><!-- s:bomb: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#6
Oh Akhi! <!-- sBlush --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="Blush" title="Blush" /><!-- sBlush -->

BTW - I found another error in our 'little red book'.

For verse 47, they have the phrase ygs tbh'd lXm, which really freaked me out. But when I checked both the Word doc and your Interlinear, I see that they mistakenly put a h instead of a x. Of course, it reads [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tbx0d[/font].

But, I couldn't help but wonder that the x was pronounced soooo lightly, that it could have been heard as a h, hinting to the Hebrew.

Whaddya think?
Rob
<font face="Estrangelo (V1.1)" size="4">
hnm Lqt4n hl ty0d wh P0 hl tyld Nmw hl Bhytn ryg hl ty0d Nm
(w4y</font>
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#7
Shlama Akhi Rob:
No, I didn???t notice that word play! Even if I have notice some time ago the similarity of both words ([font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bwx[/font], KHWBA: without vowels is the same, [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0bwx [/font]KHaWBA, debt; KHWouBA, love) and I was wondering if there should be some word play on these in some place (I???m sure that there are more than one). Let???s keep searching on it! As we say (in Spanish), ???four (or more) eyes can see more than only two!???
Thanks,
Ab. Valentin
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Ygs 0ml4 Kl 0wnh[/font]
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