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1 Timothy 2:11-12
1 Timothy 2:11-12 (NASB-1995) 11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (Magiera) 11A wife should learn in quietness with all submission 12for I do not allow a wife to teach nor to be presumptuous over the husband, but she should be at peace. 
1 Timothy 2:11-12 (https://theholyaramaicscriptures.weebly) 11The woman, in quietness, should be learning in all subjection. 12For, a woman to teach, I don’t permit, and not to be headstrong concerning the gabra {the man}, but rather, to be in silence.
I have several questions concerning these two verses.
1) Is the Aramaic for “woman” and “wife” (in each of the verses) the same word with different meanings depending on context?
--> In Magiera’s translation the “wife” (or “woman”) isn’t allowed to teach her “husband” or her "protective male" (possibly her father) but there does not appear to be any prohibition to her teaching in a church setting.
2) What is the correct phrase in verse 12, “exercise authority”, “be presumptuous”, or “headstrong”?
---> It seems to me that “authority” is probably an incorrect translation since 1 Timothy 6:16 uses another word than is used in 1 Timothy 2:12.
3) What is the correct noun in verse 12, “man”, “husband”, or “protective male”?
The implications of the correct meaning of these two verses can hardly be overstated. I am interested in what you guys think.
The same Aramaic word ܐܢܬܬܐ used in this passage can refer both to either a woman or to a wife of a husband, which Aramaic word ܓܒܪܐ in this passage can mean either a man or a husband of a woman. It is all a matter of the context of the whole passage that we can get the right meaning of the teaching.

in verse 12 the thought could be translated a number of ways, but basically seems to convey the meaning of one acting boldly over an authority would, being domineering or headstrong in actions would fit...or to presume to exercise authority over someone. In this context the wife over the husband, but generally the woman over the man. which in either case is out of order according to God's intended will for the roles of men and women as is alluded to with Adam and Eve being mentioned in the passage.

As you might know, elsewhere in Holy Scripture (1st Corinthians 14:34-35) speaks in similar terms when speaking of women and men in a Church setting, where God, through the Apostle Paul, again lays out the prescribed order of the roles of both sexes. In that passage there are different names used for the women and men, but can mean the same thing as the other names used in 1st Timothy 2:11-12.

(06-21-2019, 05:48 AM)Thirdwoe Wrote: Thirdwoe,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. You said in "1st Corinthians 14:34-35... there are different names used for the women and men, but can mean the same thing as the other names used in 1st Timothy 2:11-12."

Since I can't read Aramaic I was wondering what different words were used in 1 Corinthians as opposed to 1 Timothy?

BTW, I agree with your overall assessment.

vs 34 has ܢܫܝܟܘܢ "neshaykuwn" = "your women/wives" and vs 35 has ܠܒܥܠܝܗܝܢ lbalayheyn = "unto their husbands/lords"
(06-23-2019, 09:16 PM)Thirdwoe Wrote: vs 34 has ܢܫܝܟܘܢ "neshaykuwn" = "your women/wives" and vs 35 has ܠܒܥܠܝܗܝܢ lbalayheyn = "unto their husbands/lords"


Do you know if there are any nuanced differences in the words used for wife/woman (wives/women) and husband/man (husbands/men) in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12? Any ideas why Paul would use either word in preference to the other when addressing the congregations at Corinth v. Ephesus (1 Timothy)?

Paul in Ephesians 5:25 uses the same term for women/wives as in the 1st Corinthian passage, and in Eph 5:25 it is clearly speaking about wives.

I would love to know what was in Paul's mind regarding lots of things. Smile
Hi all,

The word used in verse 11 is just a generic term for “woman”, not necessarily a married woman (see Matthew 5:28, 9:20, etc.)

The word for “man” used in verse 12, I would be inclined to translate as just generic “man” without any relationship necessarily to the woman. The reason for this is it lacks the possessive suffix and Daleth proclitic to denote “her man”, which is usually how a relationship is established (reference Matthew 1:16 - “gawreh d-Maryam”)
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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