06-08-2020, 05:05 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2020, 05:07 AM by Charles Wilson.
Edit Reason: Left out a Capitol Letter
)
D. Ford!
Another nice entry! I'm especially glad that you looked at John 6: 22.
Howard Teeple (The Literary Origin of the Gospel of John) has an expansive look at this one:
***
S [Source]
On the morrow the crowd,
E [Editor]
the one having stood [s. "Singular"] on the other side of the sea,
S.
saw [pl. "Plural"] that
R [Redactor]
another small boat [ploiarion] was not there except one, and that
[R tries to make it more explicit that there was only one boat and Jesus was not in it, so he must have walked on water].
S
Jesus [arth. "Arthrous"] did not get into the boat [ploion] with his disciples, but his disciples went away alone.
***
There is some complex arranging going on here. There appears to be some argument between the Mark crowd and the John crowd. The (Later?) John people (The Greekies, presumably...) want to leave no possibility that there is a misunderstanding about a particular aspect of Jesus' character. Teeple sees Source, Editor, Redactor and others giving their Identities by "Arthrous" and "Anarthrous" articles in front of names. This one verse shows strong evidence of manipulation in its Greek Derivative form. Further, within each camp are problems.
Mark has two versions, one with Jesus in the boat and one where he dismisses the crowd and the disciples go ahead of him and "Cross Over". In one of the versions (Ch. 4: 34 - 41), other boats are on the sea with them. In the other, Jesus is alone. He sees the boat with the disciples. There are some amazing statements in both Markan versions:
"Are we to drown, for all you care?"
And
[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them,
[49] but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out;
[50] for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
"Fourth Watch" is a Roman Military term. When the disciples see Jesus, they think that they have seen a ghost.
In both Stories, the wind plays a significant role. Why is there no mention of "Boats" <plural> in the second Story?
John sees this and attempts to reconcile the oddness as well. There are also two Stories. As mentioned, John takes pains to assure EVERYONE that there were no other boats and then there were. John also appears impatient with the first Passage - "...and immediately the boat was at the land..."
What is the importance of "No other boats"? Maybe this presents absolutely no problems to everyone else. Wouldn't be the first time. Still, if Mark and John wrote from a Common Source (See: Jay Raskin), the Second Squall Passage has something that separates it from a common boat-at-sea-in-a-storm Story.
I dunno. Maybe someone else sees something. Sure is weird...
Thanx all and esp. David fors.
CW
Is this John Passage a rewrite of Mark?
Another nice entry! I'm especially glad that you looked at John 6: 22.
Howard Teeple (The Literary Origin of the Gospel of John) has an expansive look at this one:
***
S [Source]
On the morrow the crowd,
E [Editor]
the one having stood [s. "Singular"] on the other side of the sea,
S.
saw [pl. "Plural"] that
R [Redactor]
another small boat [ploiarion] was not there except one, and that
[R tries to make it more explicit that there was only one boat and Jesus was not in it, so he must have walked on water].
S
Jesus [arth. "Arthrous"] did not get into the boat [ploion] with his disciples, but his disciples went away alone.
***
There is some complex arranging going on here. There appears to be some argument between the Mark crowd and the John crowd. The (Later?) John people (The Greekies, presumably...) want to leave no possibility that there is a misunderstanding about a particular aspect of Jesus' character. Teeple sees Source, Editor, Redactor and others giving their Identities by "Arthrous" and "Anarthrous" articles in front of names. This one verse shows strong evidence of manipulation in its Greek Derivative form. Further, within each camp are problems.
Mark has two versions, one with Jesus in the boat and one where he dismisses the crowd and the disciples go ahead of him and "Cross Over". In one of the versions (Ch. 4: 34 - 41), other boats are on the sea with them. In the other, Jesus is alone. He sees the boat with the disciples. There are some amazing statements in both Markan versions:
"Are we to drown, for all you care?"
And
[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them,
[49] but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out;
[50] for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
"Fourth Watch" is a Roman Military term. When the disciples see Jesus, they think that they have seen a ghost.
In both Stories, the wind plays a significant role. Why is there no mention of "Boats" <plural> in the second Story?
John sees this and attempts to reconcile the oddness as well. There are also two Stories. As mentioned, John takes pains to assure EVERYONE that there were no other boats and then there were. John also appears impatient with the first Passage - "...and immediately the boat was at the land..."
What is the importance of "No other boats"? Maybe this presents absolutely no problems to everyone else. Wouldn't be the first time. Still, if Mark and John wrote from a Common Source (See: Jay Raskin), the Second Squall Passage has something that separates it from a common boat-at-sea-in-a-storm Story.
I dunno. Maybe someone else sees something. Sure is weird...
Thanx all and esp. David fors.
CW
Is this John Passage a rewrite of Mark?