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book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic?
Jesus spoke Aramaic. For Mt 24:43, do you think "διορυχθῆναι" was the best way to render what Jesus had originally said in Aramaic?

Matthew 24:43 (Berean Literal Bible + interlinear)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-43.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-43.htm
And know this, that if the master of the house had known in what time of night the thief comes,
he would have watched and not have allowed his house 1358/diorychthēnai/διορυχθῆναι.

1358. diorussó
https://biblehub.com/greek/1358.htm
diorussó: to dig through....
Word Origin
from dia and orussó

1223. dia
https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Definition: through, on account of, because of
Usage: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.
HELPS Word-studies
1223 diá (a preposition) – properly, across (to the other side), back-and-forth to go all the way through, "successfully across" ("thoroughly"). 1223 (diá) is also commonly used as a prefix and lend the same idea ("thoroughly," literally, "successfully" across to the other side).
[1223 (diá) is a root of the English term diameter ("across to the other side, through"). Before a vowel, dia is simply written di̓.]

3736. orussó
https://biblehub.com/greek/3736.htm
orussó: to dig
Original Word: ὀρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: orussó
Phonetic Spelling: (or-oos'-so)
Definition: to dig
Usage: I dig, dig out, excavate.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to dig
NASB Translation
dug (3).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3736: ὀρύσσω
ὀρύσσω: 1 aorist ὤρυξα; from Homer down; the Sept. for חָפַר, כָּרָה, etc.; to dig: to make τί by digging, Mark 12:1; τί ἐν τίνι, Matthew 21:33; equivalent to to make a pit, ἐν τῇ γῆ, Matthew 25:18 (here T Tr WH ὤρυξεν γῆν). (Compare: διορύσσω, ἐξορύσσω.)
Reply
Jesus spoke Aramaic. For Mt 9:12, do you think "ἰσχύοντες" was the best way to render what Jesus had originally said in Aramaic?

Matthew 9:12 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/9-12.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/2-17.htm
And having heard, He said, 
"Not those being strong have need of a physician, 
but those being sick.
2480/ischyontes/ἰσχύοντες/ being strong

====================================================================.
Is Luke 12:49 best rendered as a statement, or as a question?
Is it best rendered as having:
"I came to cast fire"?
"I came to kindle fire"?

Luke 12:49
https://biblehub.com/luke/12-49.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/12-49.htm
(Berean Literal Bible) I came to cast fire upon the earth, 
and how I wish it were kindled already!
(YLT) 'Fire I came to cast to the earth, 
and what will I if already it was kindled?
906/balein/βαλεῖν/ to cast

906. balló 
https://biblehub.com/greek/906.htm
balló: to throw, cast
Original Word: βάλλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: balló
Phonetic Spelling: (bal'-lo)
Definition: to throw, cast
Usage: (a) I cast, throw, rush, (b) often, in the weaker sense: I place, put, drop.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
to throw, cast
NASB Translation
bring (2), cast (15), casting (3), casts (3), contributors (1), laid (1), lying (3), lying sick (1), place (1), poured (4), put (22), puts (2), putting (4), rushed (1), swung (2), threw (12), throw (16), thrown (27), tossing (1).

http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
leads to
http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr...ize=125%25
C
  1 to throw, cast down Syr, JBA, LJLA.
  2 to provide . --(a) to give Syr, JBA. --(b) (math.) to add Syr. --(c ) to pour in Syr. --(d) to bring forth, cause Syr. --(e) w. ... to sign one's name Syr.
  3 to place on the ground JLAtg, Syr.
  4 idioms: Syr. --(a) to attack Syr. (a.1) ... Syr. (a.2) to hit with an arrow Syr. 1 to hunt with bow and arrow Syr. --(b) + ... to give a hand, i.e. to help move Syr. (b.1) to subscribe, sign Syr. --(c ) ... to requite, exact recompense Syr. --(d) to make brick Syr. --(e) to set out on something Syr. (e.1) ... to start a journey Syr. (e.2) ... to go on board Syr. --(f) ... to kindle Syr. --(g) to pronounce Syr.
Reply
mistranslations in Greek mss. at Lk 18:5 and 1 Cor 9:27

When Jesus spoke in Aramaic what became Luke 18:5, do you think he had the unjust judge express concern about possibly being physically attacked by a widow?
When 1 Cor 9:27 was originally written, do you think it mentioned: hitting below the eye? self-inflicted physical assault?

Luke 18:5 (NIV)
https://biblehub.com/luke/18-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/18-5.htm
yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice,
so that she won't eventually come and attack me!'"
5299/ hypōpiazē/ ὑπωπιάζῃ

5299. hupópiazó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5299.htm
hupópiazó: to strike under the eye
Original Word: ὑπωπιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hupópiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-o-pee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to strike under the eye
Usage: I strike under the eye, hence: I bruise, treat severely, discipline by hardship, molest, annoy, harass, worry, exhaust.
HELPS Word-studies
5299 hypōpiázō (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and ōps, "eye") – properly, to strike under the eye, i.e. giving someone "a black eye."

Luke 18:5
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Murdock) yet, because this widow troubleth me, I will vindicate her;
that she may not be always coming and troubling [Aramaic: m-h-r-a] me.
(Lamsa) Yet because this widow troubles me, I will avenge her,
so that she may not keep coming and annoy me.

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr...ize=125%25
hrr vb. a/a to dispute
G View a KWIC
1 to hold a disputation CPA, Syr. ESSerm4 45:68 ... at all times, then, I disputed with the deniers in the synagogues (or: assemblies?).
C View a KWIC
1 to do wrong to CPA, Syr. OS MtSin20:13 ... my friend, I do you no wrong. P Gn26:11 ... whoever wrongs this man and his wife shall surely be killed . (a) to damage CPA, Syr. JulSok 451(222):7 ... EphBread 16:24b ... the fire held back its might and did not damage it. (b) to do oneself damage Syr. JSBhom 126:295 ... in this way show that you are the Messiah if you are not hurt. JSBhom 126:298 ... if you fall they will pick you up and you will not be harmed.
2 to trouble, annoy CPA, Syr, LJLA. P Esth7:4 ... for the enemy is not going to cease to trouble the king. P Dan6:3 ... TgProv25:20var.=Syr. ... so does impatience trouble a man's heart†.
Ct View a KWIC
1 to be damaged CPA, Syr.
....
Derivatives:
hr, hrˀ (*her, herrā) n.m. harm
hrh, hrtˀ (herrā, herṯā) n.f. litigation, strife
hrtn (herṯān) adj. litigious
hrr, hrrˀ (hrār, hrārā) v.n. noisy cat-fighting
hrr (harrār) adj. litigious, contentious
hrrh, hrrtˀ (harrārā, harrārtā) n.f. cat
hrrw, hrrwtˀ (harrārū, harrārūṯā) n.f. litigiousness
mhr, mhrˀ n.m. illness
mhr (mahhar) adj. injurious; vulnerable
mhrn, mhrnˀ (mahhərān, mahhərānā) nom.ag.C molester
mhrnw, mhrnwtˀ (mahhərānū, mahhərānūṯā) n.f. molestation

1 Corinthians 9:27 (NIV)
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/9-27.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/9-27.htm
No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave
so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
5299/ hypōpiazō/ ὑπωπιάζω/ I batter

5299. hupópiazó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5299.htm
hupópiazó: to strike under the eye ....
5299 hypōpiázō (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and ōps, "eye") – properly, to strike under the eye, i.e. giving someone "a black eye."

1Cor 9:27
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) but my body I subdue [Aramaic: k-b-sh] and make subservient,
lest when to others I shall have preached, I my very self shall be rejected.
(Murdock) but I subdue my body, and reduce it to servitude;
lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a reprobate.

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr...=khabouris
kbš vb. to tread on, subjugate
G View a KWIC
1 to tread on Qumran, JLAtg, Gal, Syr, Man, LJLA. TgO Num20:19 ... we shall ascend on the trodden road. PRK172.2 ... while the sandal is still on your foot, tread the thorn. (a) to subjugate OfAEg, JLAtg, Syr, BabMBK, Man. TAD B3.9 R.5 ... I shall not be able, nor a son or daughter, brother or sister, or anyone of mine, to subjugate him into being a slave. TgJ Jer34:16 ... you impressed them to be slaves and maidservants for you. P Gn1:28 ... fill the land and subjugate it. (a.1) to conquer Qumran, JLAtg, Gal, PTA, Syr, JBA, LJLA. TgO Num21:25var. ... P Dt2:34 ... P Ju9:45 ... BT San 109a(14) ... they threw some of that earth on it [i.e. the city] and captured it. (a.2) to overcome, subdue Gal, PTA, Syr. (a.3) to blaze a trail, make a road JLAtg. TgJ Is40:3 ....
2 to press Gal, Syr, JBA, Man. BT Šab 128b(25) ... one who slaughters a cock should press its feet into the ground. (a) to besiege Syr. P Ju1:8 ... (b) to bind, wrap JPAEpig, LJLA. Amu11 1.6 ... bound in non-copper chains. PJ Ex29:9 ... you should wrap them (for them?) turbans. © to lower Syr. PO9 507:6 .
3 to intercalate Syr. ENchr22 5:26 .
4 to cultivate Syr. Geop 2:11 .
5 to withhold, to hide JLAtg, Syr, JBA, LJLA. TgO Ex3:6 ... TgJ Is58:7 ... do not keep your eye away from your relative. BT BM 110a(22) ... he did indeed withhold (the document). BT Nid 39b(11) ... a hen which lays (an egg) one day and withholds one day. PJ Ex3:6 ... but Moses kept his face away.
6 to preserve, pickle Gal, Syr, JBA. WilkinsBhayro 104 ... among us they also pickle some of them in vinegar or in salt water. BT Men 50b(47) ...
7 to inlay, overlay JLAtg, LJLA. TgJ Is54:11 ... I am about to overlay the stones of your floors with stibnite... and adorn you with fine gems. TgEsth101:5 ... fruit and spice producing trees overlaid up to half with fine gold.
D View a KWIC
1 to subdue, thoroughly subjugate JLAtg, CPA, Sam, Syr, BabMBK, JBAg, Man, LJLA. TgJ Is20:1 ... he made war against Ashdod and conquered it. P Is2:19 ... JBABowl 84.1:8 ... so are all their enemies and oppressors subdued. (a) to tame, master OfAEg, Syr. TAD C1.1(Ahiqar) .187 ... two things are beautiful, yea three beloved by Shamash: he who drank wine and absorbs it, who mastered wisdom [and keeps it hidden?/glories not?] and who hears a matter and does not reveal it. KwD2 126:15 ... just as they tame a wild elephant using a tamed elephant. (b) to castigate Syr. AS 18:30 .
2 to preserve, pickle Gal.
3 to trod thoroughly JLAtg. TgJ Jer18:15 ... to go on improper roads on untrodden paths.
4 to till thoroughly Syr. Geop 2:11 ... we should till it in the autumnal equinoctial periods.
5 to inlay, overlay JLAtg. TgJ Amos6:4 ... who lie on couches inlaid with ivory.
C View a KWIC
1 to subjugate Syr. (a) to force to share a meal Syr. PSm 1675 . (b) w. b_ : to assign a task to a subordinate (or D?) Syr, LJLA. BHBS.E Econ 2.3.2 ... every master should assign his servant work naturally appropriate to him. TgIIChron 8:10 ... who were taskmasters for the people ...
Gt View a KWIC
1 to be subjugated JLAtg, Gal, PTA, Sam, Syr, Man, LJLA. TgO Num32:22 ... JulSok 215(104):3 ... P Nm32:22 ... P 1K(1)16:18 ... that GN had been conquered. (a) to be overcome Syr. ES2 86:42 . (b) (face) to display distress JLAtg, LJLA. TgO Gen4:5 ... PJ Gen4:6 ... why does the look on your face seem so down?.
2 to be stored up Syr. BBah 2065:5 .
3 to be intercalated Syr. Act14congr2 147:6 .
4 to be tilled Syr. Geop 2:15 ... before it is tilled they sow with barley in a furrow called a g'. Geop 2:3f. ... all the land fit to be tilled.
Dt View a KWIC
1 to be subjugated BabMBK, Man, LJLA. JBABowl 6.1:9 ...
2 to be crushed Man.
3 to be pickled Syr.
The common usage of this verb in the sense of "to pickle, to preserve" is due to the still widespread practice of pressing vegetables in brine to create a long-lasting product such as pickles and sauerkraut; see kbš #4 n.m.
....
Derivatives: ...
kbwš. kwbšˀ (kǝḇoš, kuḇšā) n.m. footstool
kbwš, kbwšˀ (kāḇōš, kāḇōšā) nom.ag. suppressor
kbwšy, kbwšyˀ (kḇūšē, kḇūšyā) n.m. subjugation
kbyš (kḇīš, kḇīšā) n.m. stepped on place
kbyš (kḇīš) adj. stored; submissive
kbyšw, kbyšwtˀ (kḇīšū, kḇīšūṯā) n.f. humility
kbš, kbšˀ (kǝḇeš/kēbaš, kiḇšā) n.m. path; footstool
kbš n.m. a type of basket (??)
kbš, kbšˀ (kǝḇāš, kǝḇāšā) v.n. pressure
kbš, kbšˀ (kǝḇeš, keḇšā) n.m. preserved with mustard
kbš, kbšˀ (*kḇeš, keḇšā) n.m. wether
kbšh, kbštˀ n.f. overbearing woman
kwbš, kwbšˀ (kubbāš, kubbāšā) v.n.D pressure
kwbšˀ n.m.
mkbšnw, mkbšnwtˀ n.f. subjugation
mtkbšn, mtkbšnˀ (meṯkaḇšān, meṯkaḇšānā) n.m. conquerable
mtkbšnw, mtkbšnwtˀ (meṯkaḇšānū, meṯkaḇšānūṯā) n.f. subjugation
Reply
Do you disagree with any of this?:
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
No barbarism in Revelation is worse than the kairôi in Luke 20:10. It is not Greek, but it reproduces exactly the Aramaic adverbial compound, lizəman, and for that reason it was coined by Luke, who is the most slavishly literal of the Gospel translators.

Luke 20:10 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/20-10.htm
καὶ καιρῷ ἀπέστειλεν πρὸς τοὺς γεωργοὺς δοῦλον, ἵνα ἀπὸ τοῦ καρποῦ τοῦ ἀμπελῶνος δώσουσιν αὐτῷ· οἱ δὲ γεωργοὶ ἐξαπέστειλαν αὐτὸν δείραντες κενόν.

Do you disagree with any of the commentary below?

Luke 20, Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/20-10.htm
And again he sent. In vers. 11 and 12, προσέθεο πέμψαι, literally, "he added to send another" - a Hebraism. This shows St. Luke here based his account on a Hebrew (Aramaic) original.

Luke 20:11
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/20-11.htm
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges ...
And again he sent another] Jeremiah 44:4. Literally, “And he added to send another”—a Hebraism, Luke 19:11; Acts 12:3; Genesis 4:2 ….
Bengel's Gnomen ...
Προσέθετο πέμψαι) A Hebraism often found in the LXX. Version.
Vincent's Word Studies
He sent yet (προσέθετο πέμψαι)
Lit., he added to send. A Hebrew form of expression.

Luke 19:11, Meyer's NT Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/19-11.htm
προσθείς] adding to, still continuing—a Hebraism, as at Genesis 38:5, Job 29:1, and elsewhere; Winer, p. 416 [E. T. 588]. In pure Greek the expression would run προσθεὶς παραβ. εἶπεν.

Acts 12:3
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/12-3.htm
Meyer's NT Commentary ….
προσέθετο συλλαβ.] a Hebraism: he further seized. Comp. on Luke 19:11; Luke 20:12.
….
Expositor's Greek Testament ….
προσέθετο συλλ.: a Hebraism, cf. Luke 19:11; Luke 20:11 : LXX, Genesis 4:2; Genesis 8:12; Genesis 25:1, Exodus 14:13, etc., peculiar to St. Luke in N.T., Viteau, Le Grec du N. T., p. 209 (1893).

Luke 20:12, Expositor's Greek Testament
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/20-12.htm
προσέθετο πέμψαι, he added to send, a Hebraism, as in Luke 19:11.
Reply
Is Eph 4:1 best rendered with:
“for our Lord”
“in our Lord”
“of our Lord”
“of the Lord”
“in the Lord”?

Ephesians 4:1, Matthew Poole's Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/ephesians/4.htm
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
….
The prisoner of the Lord; in the Lord, a Hebraism: it is as much as, for the Lord: see Ephesians 3:1.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambri...ians/4.htm
https://archive.org/details/cambridgebib...2/mode/2up
the prisoner of the Lord] Lit., the prisoner in the Lord.

Ephesians 4:1
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new...ear-search
(Etheridge) I BESEECH of you, therefore, I, the bound one for our Lord,
[Aramaic: a-s-i-r-a: prisoner, sergeant, bound; bind, fasten
Aramaic: b’M-r-n: in/with/to our-Lord/Master]
that you walk as is worthy of the calling wherewith you are called,
(Murdock) I therefore, a prisoner in our Lord, beseech of you, that ye walk, (as it becometh the calling wherewith ye are called,)
(KJV) I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
a Dutch translation at http://dukhrana.com
Ephesians 4:1 - Als gevangene in onze Heer dring ik er bij jullie op aan dat jullie leven zoals dat past bij de roeping waarmee jullie geroepen zijn,
onze Heer - dit is de lezing van de Aramese Peshitta. De lezing van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR luidt: ‘de Heer’.
leven - letterlijk: ‘wandelen’ of: ‘lopen’.
zoals dat past bij ... - dit is de lezing van de Aramese Peshitta. De lezing van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR luidt: ‘waardig aan ...’.
google translate:
Ephesians 4:1 - As a prisoner in our Lord, I urge you to live your life according to the calling with which you were called,
our Lord - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "the Lord".
life - literally: "walking" or "walking".
as befits ... - this is the reading of the Aramean Peshitta. The reading of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR reads: "worthy of ...".

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr...ize=125%25
b_ prep. in, with
LJLA TargJob 2x as an independent wordבמו ‏ replicating the biblical source; whether or not the Aramaic is sensitive to any special meaning of the Biblical form is impossible to say
1 in Com. --(a) a place Com. --(b) within a structure or other enclosing object Com. --© during a time period Com.
2 with (instrumentative) Com. --(a) using, according to Com. (a.1) w. ymˀ, etc., : to swear by Com. --(b) (as opposed to "without") having Syr.
3 among Com. --(a) adjective + b_ = superlative Com. --(b) with a number: multiplicative Syr. --© w. transitive verbs: to do some (damage, building, fixing, etc.) to something Com.
4 at Com. --(a) a certain time Com.
5 to, into Com.
6 with regard to (i.e., as a general adverbializing particle w. various verbs, nouns, and adjectives) . --(a) (w. to giveSmile for, in exchange for Com. --(b) specialized meanings with various verbs: see s.vv. šlṭ, ḥzy, ḥwy Com. --© idiomatic usages with various nouns: see s.vv. ryš, šm, . --(d) see also under various complete collocations as adverbs and preps, e.g. bˀnpy, byd p., etc. . --(e) with many verbs supplying a negative relationship to an object Com.
mry nou

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
Aramaic is a language remarkably easy of recognition. There is a notoriously troublesome pronoun, dī (abbreviated d’), which appears constantly in Aramaic writings in a variety of meanings. It is a particle signifying appurtenance, regularly used where Hebrew or another Semitic language would employ the “construct state”; it is the Aramaic relative pronoun. More important is its very frequent idiomatic use as a conjunction. It is so widely used and so often ambiguous that it is a frequent source of mistranslation. Wherever dī appears―and it is the characteristic feature of Aramaic writing―the nature of the language is shown with certainty.* This will be dealt with in detail in the Critical Notes.
*To be mentioned also is the very frequent use of the preposition li as a particle governing either the direct or indirect object. This same preposition appears in late Hebrew, probably borrowed from the Aramaic.
No indication of Greek translation from Aramaic is surer or more certain to occur frequently than the false rendering of the particle dī, especially when it is the relative pronoun. The examples of such mistranslation in the Four Gospels are numerous and important. As typical specimens may be mentioned Matt. 8:9, 27; Mark 4:12; 10:6; 14:68; Luke 7:47; John 1:8, 16; 5:37; 12:41. As a rule the Greek translator makes dī a conjunction (unless the context very plainly forbids) when it is followed by a verb. If the verb is perfect tense, he will render the particle by hóti; if imperfect tense, by hina. The translator of the Apocalypse is very sparing of Greek particles and monotonous in his use of Greek equivalents of Semitic words.

“into the lake of fire burning with brimstone”

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
It is to be noted that where Greek grammar is ignored, the eye of the translator being on the gender, cases, or other syntactical features of his Aramaic original, it never results that the sense of the passage is altered or obscured. The irregularity simply means: See the original text! The shadow of the warning in 22:18 f. is over the entire Greek version, and the desire to give a quid pro quo at every point is unmistakable. Where the rendering cannot be completely verbal, compensation is provided by a device serving to indicate that a slight omission has been made.

The identification of the thing omitted is particularly interesting, for it is found to be always the same thing, namely the relative pronoun dī. It is actually a demonstrative; hence so often including-- as we should say-- both antecedent and relative. This pronoun, very widely and variously employed, frequently occurs in idioms in which its value as a substantive is not lost, while the Greek rendering, to be at all satisfactory as Greek, must leave it untranslated. Even in the Aramaic itself the original force of the pronoun is often obscured. Kautzsch, Gramm. des Biblisch-Aramäischen, p. 168, note, remarks: “Wie weit sich ein nominaler Charakter des dī bei Lebzeiten der Sprache im Sprachbewusstsein festsetzte, muss dahingestellt bleiben.” [google translate: "How far a nominal character of the dī was established in language consciousness during the lifetime of the language has to be left open."] See however Brockelmann, Vergl. Gramm. der sem. Sprachen, 2, 568 f. Our Apocalypse affords striking evidence that its Greek translator felt compelled to recognize the presence of this word in all the cases in which it is distinctly a pronoun introducing a clause. His version accordingly compensates for the loss of the word by a change in the Greek case, this indicating the construction of the original text, where no other reason appears for any such change of case in the Greek. It is interesting to see how recognition of this one fact explains―perfectly―the majority of the solecisms in Revelation.

Before illustrating these changes of case, along with some further influence of the pronoun dī, an example or two of false (Aramaic) gender in the translation may be given.

A typical instance is 19:20, mentioned above in the brief list of remarkable sins against Greek grammar. The phrase “into the lake of fire burning with brimstone” has this surprising form: eis tēn limnēn toû puròs tês kaiménēs (not toû kaioménou) en theîōi. This renders Aramaic ləyammɔʾ ḏī nūrͻʾ dī yͻqdͻʾ ḇəḡūpəriṯͻʾ, in which “lake” is masculine and “fire” feminine. “Burning” is here not a simple attributive adjective, but a participle introduced by the pronoun dī (here duly rendered by the Greek definite article). This is a new clause and the gender is feminine, and it is so rendered with perfect freedom. This is the atmosphere of the entire translation.

Ephesians 3:1, Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, pg 87 of volume on Ephesians
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ephesians/3-1.htm
https://archive.org/details/cambridgebib...6/mode/2up
the prisoner of Jesus Christ] So Philemon 1:1; Philemon 1:9; 2 Timothy 1:8; and below, Ephesians 4:1, with an interesting difference….

====================================================.
How should Daniel 6:18 be rendered?

"6:18 Then the king went to his palace,
and passed the night fasting;
neither were instruments of music brought before him.
His sleep fled from him."

Daniel 6:18
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambri...niel/6.htm
Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of musick brought before him: and his sleep went from him.
18. instruments of musick] The meaning of the word thus rendered is unknown. The root in Aram. and Heb. means to thrust, overthrow (Psalm 36:12; Psalm 118:13). In Arab. it means further to spread, spread out, and is also used specially in the sense compressit feminam. The ancient translators and commentators conjectured a meaning suited to the context. Theod. (ἐδέσματα), Pesh., Jerome (cibi), render food; Rashi (12 cent.), a table (cf. A.V. marg.); Ibn Ezra, stringed instruments (supposing, improbably, to thrust to be used in the sense of to strike); Saad. (10 cent.), dancing-girls; many moderns (from the Arab. meaning of the root, mentioned above), concubines. But it is very doubtful whether it is legitimate to explain an Aram. word from a sense peculiar to Arabic, and there, moreover, only secondary and derived. By assuming a very small corruption in the text (דחון for לחנן), we should, however, obtain the ordinary Aram. word for concubines (Daniel 5:2-3; Daniel 5:23): so Marti, Prince. But whatever the true meaning, or reading, of the word may be, the general sense of the verse remains the same: the king did not indulge in his usual diversions.

Latin "compressit feminam"
https://books.google.com/books?id=4RUVAA...it+feminam
to deflower a woman, usually by force

Daniel 6:18 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation)
http://superbook.org/LAMSA/DAN/dan6.htm
Then the king went to his palace
and passed the night fasting;
no food was brought before him,
and his sleep departed from him.

A copy of the Dead Sea scrolls material, and 2 books on Daniel, failed to yield a conclusive result on the meaning.
Reply
https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/articles_jbl-03.php
Millar Burrows, "The Johannine prologue as Aramaic verse," Journal of Biblical Literature 45.1-2 (1926): 57-69.
James Alan Montgomery, "Some Aramaisms in the Gospels and Acts," Journal of Biblical Literature 46.1-2 (1927): 69-73.
James Alan Montgomery, "Torrey’s Aramaic Gospels," Journal of Biblical Literature 53.2 (1934): 79-99.
Charles Cutler Torrey, "Professor Marcus on the Aramaic gospels," Journal of Biblical Literature 54.1 (1935): 17-28.
Johannes De Zwaan [1883-1957], "John wrote in Aramaic," Journal of Biblical Literature 57.2 (1938): 155-171.
Frank Zimmermann, "The Aramaic origin of Daniel 8-12," Journal of Biblical Literature 57.3 (1938): 255-272.
Godfrey Rolles Driver [1892-1975], "The Aramaic of the Book of Daniel," Journal of Biblical Literature 45.1-2 (1926): 110-119.
Godfrey Rolles Driver [1892-1975], "The Aramaic language," Journal of Biblical Literature 45.3-4 (1926): 323-325.
Donald Wayne Riddle, "The Aramaic gospels and the synoptic problem," Journal of Biblical Literature 54.3 (1935): 127-138.

https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/articles_jbl-04.php
Keith Andrews, "The translation of Aramaic DI in the Greek Bibles," Journal of Biblical Literature 66.1 (March 1947): 15-51.
Charles Cutler Torrey, "The Aramaic of the Gospels," Journal of Biblical Literature 61.2 (June 1942): 71-85.
Robert Gordis [1908-1992], "Koheleth: Hebrew or Aramaic?" Journal of Biblical Literature 71.2 (June 1952): 93-109.
Joseph A. Fitzmyer, "Aramaic Qorban inscription from Jebel Hallet et-Tûri and Mark 7:11, Matt 15:5," Journal of Biblical Literature 78.1 (March 1959): 60-65.

https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/articles_jbl-05.php
Joseph A. Fitzmyer, "The Aramaic language and the study of the New Testament," Journal of Biblical Literature 99.1 (March 1980): 5-21.

https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/articles_jbl-06.php
David Goodblatt, "Audet’s "Hebrew - Aramaic" list of the books of the OT revisited," Journal of Biblical Literature 101.1 (March 1982): 75-84.
Michael O. Wise, "A calque from Aramaic in Qoheleth 6:12, 7:12, and 8:13," Journal of Biblical Literature 109.2 (Summer 1990): 249-257.
Jan Joosten, "West Aramaic elements in the Old Syriac and Peshitta Gospels," Journal of Biblical Literature 110.2 (Summer 1991): 271-289.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
John Wrote in Aramaic
J. de Zwaan
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 57, No. 2 (Jun., 1938), pp. 155-171

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3260441
Audet's "Hebrew-Aramaic" List of the Books of the OT Revisited
David Goodblatt
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 101, No. 1 (Mar., 1982), pp. 75-84

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3262339
The Translation of Aramaic DÎ in the Greek Bibles
D. K. Andrews
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 66, No. 1 (Mar., 1947), pp. 15-51

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259206
The Mechanics of Translation Greek
J. Merle Rife
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 52, No. 4 (Dec., 1933), pp. 244-252

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3264727
Semitisms in Codex Bezae
James D. Yoder
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 78, No. 4 (Dec., 1959), pp. 317-321

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259336
Principles for Testing the Translation Hypothesis in the Gospels
Millar Burrows
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 53, No. 1 (Apr., 1934), pp. 13-30
Reply
Should Rev 14:6 be rendered with:
“everlasting/eternal message/news”?
“age-during message/news”?
“universal message/news”?

Revelation 14:6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-6.htm
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm
And I saw another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having good news age-during to proclaim to those dwelling upon the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
166/ aiōnion/ αἰώνιον

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
14:6. The adjective aiṍnion [αἰώνιον], while almost inevitable as the rendering of Aramaic ᴄᴐlam, really mistranslates here, for the ᴄᴐlam to which it refers is not ho aiṍn but hē oikouménē. The Semitic noun with the latter meaning is common in late Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac. A frequently occurring Talmudic phrase is ʾummōt hᴐᴄōlᴐm, “the peoples of the world,” meaning especially the Gentiles, and it is this usage, precisely, that is intended in the present passage. The euangélion aiṍnion proclaimed here is not an “eternal message,” as it is ordinarily understood-- the idea of duration of time is not present at all; it is a “universal message,” as the verse goes on to declare, sent to the peoples of the earth, all nations, tribes, and tongues. Aramaic bᵉsōr, regularly rendered by euangélion, means simply “tidings,” whether good or bad.

Greg Glaser translations of Crawford Revelation 14:6
PDF: http://dukhrana.com/crawford/files/Revel...l-Data.pdf
linked to from
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
gospel/hope Alternate translations: "good tidings", "truth", "reason".
that to a world/age
to be preaching (plural) Alternate translation: "to evangelize them"

Revelation 14:6
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) And I saw another angel flying through heaven, who with blood [So SCHAFF, DE DlEU, and GUTBIR'S texts: but the Polyglots have not "with blood," a reading which admits of the same explanation as that given page 469.] had the
everlasting [Aramaic: d’l’ai-l-m: of/that to the world/age]
gospel [Aramaic: s-b-r-th-a: message/news]
to preach to them who dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe, and tongue and people;
(Murdock) And I saw another angel flying in heaven: and with blood, he had the everlasting gospel, to proclaim to dwellers on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
(Lamsa) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, to preach to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(KJV) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

a Dutch translation at http://dukhrana.com
Revelation 14:6 - (Daarop) zag ik [een andere engel] in het midden van de hemel vliegen en hij had het eeuwige Goede Nieuws bij zich om (dat) te verkondigen aan hen die op aarde wonen, aan ieder volk, (iedere) stam, taal en natie,
een andere engel - in de meeste Griekse manuscripten (‹MHT›) ontbreekt ‘andere’ (‹ἄλλον - allon- G243›), maar in de Griekse NA28, TR en in de Aramese Peshitta vinden wij dit woordje wel. Het probleem daarmee is dat er in het nabije tekstverband geen eerdere engel te vinden is, zodat de engel hier als ’andere engel’ aangeduid kan worden naast een eerdere. De laatste engel die voor dit vers werd genoemd, is te vinden in Op. 11:15. Het is de engel die de zevende bazuin blies. Als men echter ziet dat Op. 12 en 13 een soort intermezzo vormen waarin aan Johannes een aantal uiterst belangrijke gezichten worden getoond, voordat de lijn van de gebeurtenissen vanaf het einde van Op. 11 weer wordt opgepakt, zal men met deze afstand tussen de engel van de 7e bazuin en deze andere engel minder moeite hebben. Sommigen menen dat het woordje ‘andere’ in sommige manuscripten werd weggelaten omdat men hier juist wel moeite mee had. Weer anderen suggereren dat het woordje ‘andere’ hier is toegevoegd uit een behoefte aan harmonisatie, immers alle 5 nog volgende engelen in deze passage (‹Op. 14:8, 9, 15, 17, 18) worden aangeduid als ‘andere engelen’.
–We merken nog op dat het zestal engelen dat hier besproken wordt, wordt aangevuld met de Heer zelf in het midden van de zes (‹vs. 14, 16›), zodat er toch weer een voor Openbaring kenmerkend zevental ontstaat, deze keer op een wel heel bijzondere wijze.
het eeuwige Goede Nieuws - sommige vertalingen hebben ‘een eeuwig Evangelie’ ofwel ‘een eeuwig Goed Nieuws’, wat vanuit het Grieks gezien formeel juist is, maar de vraag is of de afwezigheid van het lidwoord in het Grieks altijd onbepaaldheid van het naamwoord impliceert. In ieder geval is de uitdrukking in de Aramese Peshitta op te vatten als bepaald. Paulus’ woorden in Gal. 1:6-9 mogen o.i. wel opgevat worden ter ondersteuning van de gedachte dat het hier om het eeuwige Evangelie gaat, en niet om ‘een’ Evangelie. Overigens wordt direct in de volgende verzen duidelijk wat die Evangelieverkondiging concreet inhoudt nl. God vrezen en de Schepper aanbidden en geen ander.
bij zich - deze tekst is onderdeel van de Aramese Peshitta, maar niet van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR.

Google translate:
Revelation 14: 6 - (Thereupon) I saw [another angel] flying in the midst of heaven and he had the eternal Good News with him to proclaim (that) to those who dwell on earth, to every people, (every) tribe, language and nation,
another angel - in most Greek manuscripts (‹MHT›)" other "(‹ ἄλλον - allon-G243 ›) is missing, but in the Greek NA28, TR and in the Aramaic Peshitta we find this word. The problem with this is that there is no previous angel in the near text, so that the angel can be referred to here as "another angel" next to a previous one. The last angel mentioned for this verse is found in Op. 11:15. It is the angel who blew the seventh trumpet. However, if one sees that Op. 12 and 13 form a kind of intermezzo in which Johannes is shown a number of extremely important faces, before the line of events from the end of Op. 11 will be picked up again, this distance between the angel of the 7th trumpet and this other angel will be less difficult. Some believe that the word "other" was omitted in some manuscripts because it was difficult to do so. Still others suggest that the word 'other' has been added here out of a need for harmonization, for all 5 subsequent angels in this passage (‹Rev. 14: 8, 9, 15, 17, 18) are referred to as 'other angels' . –Note that the six angels discussed here are supplemented by the Lord Himself in the middle of the six (‹vs. 14, 16›), so that yet again a seven typical of Revelation arises, this time on a very special way.
Eternal Good News - some translations have "an Eternal Gospel" or "an Eternal Good News," which is formally correct from the Greek perspective, but the question is whether the absence of the article in Greek always implies indeterminacy of the noun. In any case, the expression in the Aramaic Peshitta can be understood as determined. Paul's words in Gal. 1: 6-9 may be understood to support the idea that this is the eternal Gospel, and not "a" Gospel. Incidentally, it will immediately become clear in the following verses what this Gospel proclamation actually means, namely to fear God and worship the Creator and no other.
with him - this text is part of the Aramaic Peshitta, but not of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.

====================================.
Did Rev 15:2 originally read:
“harps of God”?
“harps of aloe”?

Revelation 15:2 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/15-2.htm
and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire,
and those who do gain the victory over the beast,
and his image,
and his mark,
and the number of his name,
standing by the sea of the glass,
having harps of God,

Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
15:2 (last clause). : “Harps of God”-- a very strange expression, not justified by the context, nor by any parallel. The seer is shown a company standing by the glassy sea, prepared to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb and “holding harps of God”-- where we should expect some word really descriptive of the instruments. The phrase may perhaps not be pronounced “impossible,” but it certainly is to the last degree improbable. In any Hebrew or Aramaic text written at this time, care was taken to avoid the unnecessary use of names or designations of God; in this case the use of the word was not only unnecessary but also unnatural.

This phrase as it stands seems to designate a class, or collection, of harps. Charles, 2, 343, refers to 1 Chron. 16:42, kᵉlē šīr hɔʾɛlohīm and 2 Chron. 7:6 kᵉlē šīr YHWH; but (1) the introduction of the word šīr makes the case quite different; and (2) it is worth noticing that Targ. Chron. does not permit even this form of words, but in both passages inserts qɔdɔm (“in the presence of”) before the word designating God.

It can hardly be doubted that the present text is wrong. The Greek gives no foothold for emendation, but as soon as the Aramaic it renders is restored, the cause of the trouble is made clear. What the author of the Apocalypse wrote was not kinnɔrīn dī ʾɛlɔhɔʾ, “harps of God,” but kinnɔrīn dī ʾᵃlɔhɔʾ, “harps of aloes wood." This precious wood, famed for its fragrance (Psa. 45:9[8 English]; Prov. 7:17; Song of Songs 4:14), is precisely the material that would be expected in this place. The word was either carelessly miswritten or else too hastily translated. Another characteristic misreading.

Song of Solomon 4:14 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/songs/4-14.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/songs/4-14.htm
Cypresses with nard -- nard and saffron, Cane and cinnamon, With all trees of frankincense, Myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices.
174/ wa·’ă·hā·lō·wṯ/וַאֲהָל֔וֹת / and aloes
Reply
When Jesus spoke in Aramaic what became Jn 13:13, do you think he used:
'Rabbi' (or 'our Rabbi')? 'διδάσκαλος'?
Do you think "φωνεῖτέ" was the correct word choice for Greek mss. for the passage?

John 13:13 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος,
καὶ καλῶς λέγετε, εἰμὶ γάρ.

John 13:13 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/john/13-13.htm
ye call me, The Teacher and The Lord, and ye say well, for I am;

Expositor's Greek Testament, John 13:13
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με, “ye call me,” in addressing me (φωνεῖν, not καλεῖν), ὁ διδάσκαλος καὶ ὁ κύριος “Teacher” and “Lord”; the nominativus tituli, see Winer, 226. Perhaps “Rabbi” would convey better the respect involved in διδάσκαλος.

John 13:13 (based on Younan)
You call me 'Rabban' and 'Maran,' ['our Rabbi/Teacher/Great-One' and 'our Master/Lord]
and you speak well, for I am.

J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
John 13^13 Ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος is bad Greek, just about as astonishing as if one should say in English: "you cry me teacher and lord." The right word, which John knew quite well, would have been καλεῖτε. Why did he ever write φωνεῖν?

Luke 6:46 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/6-46.htm
Τί δέ με καλεῖτε Κύριε κύριε, καὶ οὐ ποιεῖτε ἃ λέγω;
Luke 6:46 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-46.htm
'And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?

5455. phóneó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5455.htm
phóneó: to call out
Original Word: φωνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phóneó
Phonetic Spelling: (fo-neh'-o)
Definition: to call out
Usage: I give forth a sound, hence: (a) of a cock: I crow, (b) of men: I shout, (c ) trans: I call (to myself), summon; I invite, address.

==========================================================.
Do you think 5455/ φωνέω/ phóneó/ to call out, to cry out
belongs in the passages below?

snips throughout.
5455. φωνέω (phóneó)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_5455.htm
Strong's Greek: 5455. φωνέω (phóneó) — 43 Occurrences
Mark 9:35 V-AIA-3S
GRK: καὶ καθίσας ἐφώνησεν τοὺς δώδεκα
INT: And having sat down he called the twelve
Mark 10:49 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Φωνήσατε αὐτόν καὶ
INT: Jesus commanded to be called him And
Mark 10:49 V-PIA-3S
GRK: Θάρσει ἔγειρε φωνεῖ σε
INT: Take courage rise up he calls you

Luke 8:54 V-AIA-3S
GRK: χειρὸς αὐτῆς ἐφώνησεν λέγων Ἡ
NAS: her by the hand and called, saying,
Luke 14:12 V-PMA-2S
GRK: δεῖπνον μὴ φώνει τοὺς φίλους
INT: a supper not call friends
Luke 19:15 V-ANP
KJV: servants to be called unto him,

John 4:16 V-AMA-2S
GRK: αὐτῇ Ὕπαγε φώνησόν σου τὸν
NAS: to her, Go, call your husband
John 10:3 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ἴδια πρόβατα φωνεῖ κατ' ὄνομα
INT: own sheep he calls by name
John 11:28 V-PIA-3S
GRK: πάρεστιν καὶ φωνεῖ σε
NAS: is here and is calling for you.
John 13:13 V-PIA-2P
GRK: ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ
NAS: You call Me Teacher and Lord;

Mark 9 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/mark/9.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/mark/9-35.htm
33 And he came to Capernaum, and being in the house, he was questioning them, ‘What were ye reasoning in the way among yourselves?’ 34 and they were silent, for with one another they did reason in the way who is greater; 35 and having sat down he called the twelve, and he saith to them, ‘If any doth will to be first, he shall be last of all, and minister of all.’
5455/ ἐφώνησεν/ ephōnēsen

J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
....the sheep are "called" by their names, not cried at. The explanation is simple enough: in the original the Aramaic verb qera ['_' under q; '^' over a] had been used, quite idiomatically, and this verb has a very wide range of meanings: from the crowing of a cock to the reading of a book, the giving of a name to a child or of a title to an officer, from whispering to crying at the top of one's voice. What the interpreter did in both places [Jn 13:13 and Jn 10:3] is a case of mechanical, stereotyped rendering, a sort of "schoolboy's French" in Greek, as so often occurs in the LXX. It was indeed the common practice of early translators to strive after such "literal rendering." Both these are cases of translation-Semitisms.
Reply
Both the original Aramaic and its Greek translation speak of a world/age.
Neither speak of an infinite length of time.
I would say, the Greek translation of the original Aramaic confirms that a world/age was spoken of, and not an infinite length of time.
One could also say that the original Aramaic suggests that the Greek translation-- which was done shortly after the Aramaic was written-- speaks of a world/age, and doesn't speak of an infinite length of time.

Mt 25:46 (based on Younan)
And these will depart l'thshniqa-d'l'ailm [to-torment of/that-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of torment],
and the zadiqa [righteous] l'khia-d'l'ailm [to-life of/that-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of life]."

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3262339
The Translation of Aramaic DÎ in the Greek Bibles
D. K. Andrews
Journal of Biblical Literature
Vol. 66, No. 1 (Mar., 1947), pp. 15-51

I know little about the Latin. Or about Jerome, for that matter. I don't know what words he used, and don't know what meanings he ascribed to those words, nor do I know what meanings those words had among the general population at the time that he produced what he produced.
Do any advocates of never-ending-torture appeal to the Latin?

Reference that Jerome thought "æternum" meant 'an infinite length of time'?
Even today, 'eternity' doesn't necessarily mean 'an infinite length of time,' e.g. in "I went to the store today, and it took an eternity to get checked out. Everybody was at the store."

Matthew 25:46 (Clementine Vulgate)
http://dukhrana.com
Et ibunt hi in supplicium æternum: iusti autem in vitam æternam.
google translate:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Reply
In A.D. 350, what language dominated Antioch? (Greek? Aramaic?)

Joachim Jeremias, _The Prayers of Jesus_ (1967), 124pp., 111
https://books.google.com/books?id=sFqz0i...&q=nursery
T. Zahn (see preceding note) [_Der Brief des Paulus an die Roemer_ (1925), 396] pointed out that the church fathers Chrysostom [A.D. 347-407], Theodore [Theodore of Antioch, A.D. 350-428] and Theodoret [Theodoret of Cyrus, A.D. 393-457], who were brought up in Antioch, probably under the supervision of Syriac speaking nurses and nursery-maids, unanimously bear witness that small children used to address their fathers as '_abba_'. G. Kittle... deserves credit for indicating the importance of this statement.
Reply
How would you phrase: an overly-literal rendering of John 12:11?
a rendering of John 12:11 that gives the sense/meaning of the statement?

J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
....the idiom "to go and . . . ." for _to grow, to become, to do more and more_.

Genesis 26:13
https://biblehub.com/genesis/26-13.htm
(NIV) The man became rich, and his wealth continued to grow until he became very wealthy.
(American KJV) And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great:
(Brenton Septuagint) And the man was exalted, and advancing he increased, till he became very great.
(YLT) and the man is great, and goeth on, going on and becoming great, till that he hath been very great,

John 12:11
https://biblehub.com/john/12-11.htm
(Berean Literal Bible) because on account of him [Lazarus] many of the Jews were going away and were believing in Jesus.
(NKJV) because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believed in Jesus.
(YLT) because on account of him many of the Jews were going away, and were believing in Jesus.
John 12:11 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=DLNT
because many of the Jews were going-away and were believing in Jesus because of him.

It seems to me the sense is:
because of Lazarus' being raised from the dead by Jesus, more and more of the Yehudians were believing in Jesus (and that's why some wanted to assassinate Lazarus in addition to Jesus).
Reply
Mistranslations at Mark 6:31, John 15:16, and James 2:16
(besides the similar one at John 12:11)

How would you phrase:
an overly-literal rendering of Mark 6:31?
a rendering of Mark 6:31 that gives the sense/meaning of the verse?

(I’m looking in particular at,
“for those coming and those going were many”)

Mark 6:31
https://biblehub.com/mark/6-31.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-31.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/2064.htm
2064/ erchomenoi/ ἐρχόμενοι/ coming, going
2532/ kai/ καὶ/ and
3588/ hoi/ οἱ/ those
5217/ hypagontes/ ὑπάγοντες/ going
(Berean Literal Bible) And He said to them,
"You yourselves come apart to a solitary place, and rest a little."
For those coming and those going were many,
and not even did they have opportunity to eat.
(YLT) and he said to them,
'Come ye yourselves apart to a desert place, and rest a little,'
for those coming and those going were many,
and not even to eat had they opportunity,

==================================.
How would you phrase:
an overly-literal rendering of John 15:16?
a rendering of John 15:16 that gives the sense/meaning of the verse?

(I’m looking in particular at,
‘that you might go away, and might bear fruit’)

John 15:16
https://biblehub.com/john/15-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/15-16.htm
5217/ hypagēte/ ὑπάγητε/ should go
2532/ kai/ καὶ/ and
(Berean Literal Bible) You did not chose Me,
but I chose you
and appointed you,
that you should go
and you should bear fruit,
and your fruit should remain,
so that whatever you might ask the Father in My name,
He may give you.
(YLT) 'Ye did not choose out me,
but I chose out you,
and did appoint you,
that ye might go away,
and might bear fruit,
and your fruit might remain,
that whatever ye may ask of the Father in my name,
He may give you.

==================================.
How would you phrase:
an overly-literal rendering of James 2:16?
a rendering of James 2:16 that gives the sense/meaning of the verse?

(I’m looking in particular at,
https://biblehub.com/texts/james/2-16.htm
‘εἴπῃ δέ τις αὐτοῖς ἐξ ὑμῶν Ὑπάγετε ἐν εἰρήνῃ’)

James 2:16 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/james/2-16.htm
and anyone out from you says to them, "Go in peace;
be warmed and be filled,"
but does not give to them the needful things for the body,
what is the profit?

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/james/2-16.htm
eipē/εἴπῃ/says
de/δέ/then
tis/τις/anyone
autois/αὐτοῖς/to them
1537/ex/ἐξ/out from
hymōn/ὑμῶν/you
5217/Hypagete/Ὑπάγετε/Go
en/ἐν/in
eirēnē/εἰρήνῃ/peace

==================================.
2006: Raphael L…, Was the New Testament Written in Greek?, PDF: https://www.preteristarchive.com/bibliog...pdf-files/
12. To go – John 12:11
The KJV says: “Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.”

One word that the Greek translators often misunderstood was the Hebrew word Klh [h-l-k] and the Aramaic word lz0 [a-z-l] which normally mean "to go" or "to depart" but is used idiomatically in Hebrew and Aramaic to mean that some action goes forward and that something progresses "more and more". The following are several examples from the Old Testament. In each of these cases the Hebrew reads Klh [h-l-k] and the Aramaic reads lz0 [a-z-l] in both the Peshitta Old Testament and the Targums:

And the waters returned from the earth continually. . . Gen. 8:3
And the man waxed great and went forward, and grew. . . Gen. 26:13
And the hand of the children of Israel grew stronger and stronger Judges 4:24
the Philistenes went on and increased 1Sam. 14:19
but David waxed stronger and stronger 2Sam. 3: 1

One case where the Greek translator misunderstood this word and translated “to go” literally is:
John 12:11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

They went away? Certainly John’s intended meaning was:
because many of the Judeans, on account of him, were trusting more and more lz0 [a-z-l] in Yeshua.
Reply
How would you phrase a literal rendering of: Mt 10:42? Mark 9:41?
How would you phrase a rendering that gives the sense/meaning of: Mt 10:42? Mark 9:41?

Did the original written rendering of Mt 10:42:
have "no not" in quick succession?
explicitly mention "water"?

Matthew 10:42
https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-42.htm
(NIV) And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward."
(Berean Literal) And whoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones only a cup of cold _water_ in _the_ name of a disciple, truly I say to you, he shall certainly not lose his reward."
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) “And everyone who gives one of these little ones a cup of cold water only to drink, in the name of a disciple, amen, I say to you, he will not lose his reward.”
(YLT) and whoever may give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say to you, he may not lose his reward.'

Matthew 10:42 (DLNT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=DLNT
And whoever gives one _of_ these little _ones_ only _a_ cup _of_ cold _water_ to drink in _the_ name _of a_ disciple-- truly I say _to_ you he will by no means lose his reward”.

Matthew 10:42
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) And whosoever only giveth one of these little ones a cup of cold (waters) to drink in the name of a disciple,
Amen, I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
(Murdock) And whoever shall give one of these little ones to drink a cup of cold [water] only, in the name of a disciple,
verily I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.
(KJV) And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple,
verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Dutch translations at http://dukhrana.com
Matthew 10:42 - Al wie een beker koud water te drinken geeft aan een van deze kleinen, slechts in naam van een leerling, ik zeg jullie met zekerheid dat hij zijn beloning niet zal verliezen."
Matthew 10:42 - Wie één van deze kleinen te drinken geeft, al was het (maar) een beker koud water, omdat hij een discipel is, voorwaar Ik zeg jullie, hem zal zijn loon beslist niet ontgaan.”
omdat hij een discipel is - letterlijk: ‘in de naam van een discipel’.
google translate:
Matthew 10:42 - Whoever gives a cup of cold water to one of these little ones, only in the name of a student, I tell you with certainty that he will not lose his reward."
Matthew 10:42 - Whoever gives one of these little ones a drink, even if only a cup of cold water, because he is a disciple, verily I say to you, he will certainly not miss his reward."
        because he is a disciple - literally, "in the name of a disciple."

Matthew 10:42
https://biblehub.com/texts/matthew/10-42.htm
(W&H/ {NA28 variants}) καὶ ὃς ἂν ποτίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων ποτήριον ψυχροῦ μόνον εἰς ὄνομα μαθητοῦ, ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ.
(RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005) Καὶ ὃς ἐὰν ποτίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων ποτήριον ψυχροῦ μόνον εἰς ὄνομα μαθητοῦ, ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ.

=================.
Mark 9:41
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) For every one who shall give you only a cup of waters to drink in the name that you are of the Meshicha,
Amen I say to you, He shall not lose his reward.
(Murdock) For whoever shall give you to drink a cup of water only, on the ground that ye are Messiah's [followers],
verily I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
(KJV) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ,
verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Dutch translations at http://dukhrana.com
Mark 9:41 - Want al wie jullie slechts een beker water geeft, slechts in de naam van de Mšíḥā, ik zeg jullie met zekerheid, hij zal zijn beloning niet verliezen.
Mark 9:41 - Wie jullie een beker water te drinken geeft omdat jullie bij Christus horen, voorwaar, Ik zeg jullie, die zal zijn beloning zeker niet mislopen.
mislopen - letterlijk: ‘verliezen’.
omdat jullie bij Christus horen - de tekst van de Aramese Peshitta luidt letterlijk: ‘omdat jullie in de naam van Christus (‹zijn›)’, zoals wij in Mt. 10:42 vertalen: ‘omdat hij een discipel is’, maar letterlijk lezen: ‘in de naam van een discipel’. De lezing van de Griekse NA28 stemt overeen met de lezing van de Aramese Peshitta, maar de lezing van de Griekse MHT en TR luidt: ‘in mijn Naam, omdat jullie (‹discipelen›) van Christus zijn’. Het woord ‘discipelen’ staat tussen haakjes en lijkt ingevoegd te zijn op grond van de tekst van Mt. 10:42. De betekenis van de woorden is niet eenvoudig vast te stellen, maar het lijkt passend om de woorden te verbinden met de tekst van het voorgaande vers en er een zegen in te zien voor degenen die zich dienstbaar opstellen tegenover de discipelen van Jezus Christus en de Evangelieverkondiging.
google translate:
Mark 9:41 - For whoever gives you only a cup of water, only in the name of the Mšíḥā, I say to you with certainty, he will not lose his reward.
Mark 9:41 - Whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, verily I say to you, he will certainly not miss his reward.
       miss out - literally: "to lose".
       because you belong to Christ - the text of the Aramean Peshitta literally reads: "because you are in the name of Christ ("are")" as we do in Mt. 10:42 translate: "because he is a disciple," but read literally, "in the name of a disciple." The reading of the Greek NA28 is similar to the reading of the Aramaic Peshitta, but the reading of the Greek MHT and TR reads: "in my name, because you ("disciples") are of Christ." The word "disciples" is in brackets and appears to have been inserted based on the text of Mt. 10:42. The meaning of the words is not easy to determine, but it seems appropriate to link the words to the text of the previous verse and see a blessing for those who serve the disciples of Jesus Christ and the Gospel Proclamation.

Mark 9:41
https://biblehub.com/texts/mark/9-41.htm
(W&H/ {NA28 variants}) Ὃς γὰρ ἂν ποτίσῃ ὑμᾶς ποτήριον ὕδατος ἐν ὀνόματι ὅτι Χριστοῦ ἐστέ,
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ.
(RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005) Ὃς γὰρ ἂν ποτίσῃ ὑμᾶς ποτήριον ὕδατος ἐν ὀνόματί μου, ὅτι χριστοῦ ἐστέ,
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν αὐτοῦ.

=================.
Diatessaron, Section XIII -- Mt 10:42a + Mk 9:41b
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...saron.html
[~29] And every one that shall give to drink to one of these least ones a drink of water only, in the name of a disciple,
verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Reply
Do you agree that when Jesus spoke of Gehenna, he was speaking in Aramaic?

Joachim Jeremias, _New Testament Theology: The Proclamation of Jesus_ (1971), 330pp., 5
https://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-The...334016266/
That γέεννα is Aramaic follows from the ending _-a_, which points to the Aramaic pronunciation _gehinnam_ [- over e and a]; the suppression of the ending _-m_ in Greek has a parallel in _Maryam/Μαρία_ [- over 2nd a in Maryam] (cf. Dahlman, _Grammatik_^2, 183f.).

1067. geenna
https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm

3137. Maria or Mariam
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/3137.htm

=======================================================================.
Do you agree with me that when Paul wrote of Sodoma, he was writing in Aramaic?

Romans 9:29 (King James)
https://biblehub.com/romans/9-29.htm
And as Esaias said before,
Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
we had been as Sodoma,
and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Joachim Jeremias, _New Testament Theology: The Proclamation of Jesus_ (1971), 330pp., 5
https://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-The...334016266/
That γέεννα is Aramaic follows from the ending _-a_, which points to the Aramaic pronunciation _gehinnam_ [- over e and a]; the suppression of the ending _-m_ in Greek has a parallel in _Maryam/Μαρία_ [- over 2nd a in Maryam] (cf. Dahlman, _Grammatik_^2, 183f.).

Σόδομα (Sodoma) — 3 Occurrences; snips
https://biblehub.com/greek/sodoma_4670.htm
Romans 9:29 N-NNP
GRK: σπέρμα ὡς Σόδομα ἂν ἐγενήθημεν
KJV: as Sodoma, and
INT: a seed as Sodom anyhow we would have become

Jude 1:7 N-NNP
GRK: ὡς Σόδομα καὶ Γόμορρα
KJV: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha,

Revelation 11:8 N-NNP
GRK: καλεῖται πνευματικῶς Σόδομα καὶ Αἴγυπτος
NAS: is called Sodom and Egypt,

Isaiah 1:9
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/1-9.htm
5467/ kis·ḏōm/ כִּסְדֹ֣ם/ like Sodom
6017/ la·‘ă·mō·rāh/ לַעֲמֹרָ֖ה/ like Gomorrah

using
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en-us/...ear-search
S-d-u-m
a'L'Ai-m-u-r-a
Reply
Mistranslation at Mt 5:13 and Lk 14:34, but not at Mk 9:50

Matthew 5:13 (Darby)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-13.htm
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-13.htm
Ye are the salt of the earth;
but if the salt have become insipid [Greek: 3471/ mōranthē/ μωρανθῇ],
wherewith shall it be salted?
It is no longer fit for anything
but to be cast out
and to be trodden under foot by men.

Luke 14:34 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/luke/14-34.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/14-34.htm
The salt is good,
but if the salt doth become tasteless [Greek: 3471/ mōranthē/ μωρανθῇ],
with what shall it be seasoned?

3471. mórainó
https://biblehub.com/greek/3471.htm
mórainó: to be foolish
Original Word: μωραίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mórainó
Phonetic Spelling: (mo-rah'-ee-no)
Definition: to be foolish
….
Word Origin
from móros

3474. móros
https://biblehub.com/greek/3474.htm
móros: dull, stupid, foolish
Original Word: μωρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: móros
Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ros')
Definition: dull, stupid, foolish

Mark 9:50 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/mark/9-50.htm
The salt is good,
but if the salt may become [Greek: 1096/ genētai/ γένηται/ becomes] saltless [Greek: 358/ analon/ ἄναλον/ unsalty],
in what will ye season it?
Have in yourselves salt,
and have peace in one another.'

Matthew 5:13
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new...ear-search
(Etheridge) You are the salt of the earth: but if it happen that salt become tasteless [Aramaic: th-p-k-h], with what shall it be seasoned? It goeth for nothing but to be thrown without and trodden down by men.

http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr...ize=125%25
pkh vb. to be tasteless; D to dull
Mand. PHK
G View a KWIC
1 to be tasteless Syr. OS MtCur5:13 . OS MtSin5:13 … if the salt becomes tasteless with what is it to be salted. P Mt5:13….
2 fig. : to become less and less Syr. ES1 442:43 . INB 578:3 … their hardness diminished. (a) to become bland or colorless Syr. EphPar 11:7.5 … its beauties that have been drawn with the weak colors of your race have become very bland. (a.1) (light) to lose brightness Syr, Man. ApocDan.42.2 … the light of the sky (emend: sun) shall be diminished and be like the light of the moon. JulSok 341(167):27 … ActsThom 193:19 …
D View a KWIC
1 to make tasteless Syr. ESFidH 194:3 .
2 fig. : to weaken, make something dull Syr. AGnEx 13.18 … the moon, too, which was made to rule in the night while dulling the power of the night by means of its shining. AphDem4.66:20 … (a) to ward off, keep down Syr. EphPar 7:14.5 … the one who had warded off the venom of his thoughts. (b) (flame) : see s.v. pwkh v.n.D Syr.
C View a KWIC
1 to deprive of salt, sweeten Syr. ESEccl 88:12 .
2 to dirty Syr. EbPar 112:5 . (a) fig. : to treat as dirt, despise Syr. SyrAhiq 2 49:8 … woe unto you my wisdom that my son PN has dirtied and wise words has despised.
Dt View a KWIC
1 to be softened Syr. ESGE 19:25 .
2 to be abandoned Syr. JosephB 772:17 .
3 to be abolished Syr. ESNisB1 56:5 .
Ct View a KWIC
1 to be contradicted Syr. ESL2 793:5 .
….
Derivatives:
mpkhn, mpkhnˀ (mǝp̄akkǝhān, mǝp̄akkǝhānā) nom.ag.D antidote
pwkh, pwkhˀ (pukkāh, pukkāhā) v.n.D tempering (of flame)
pwkh, pwktˀ n.m. languor
pkh adj. foolish
pkhw, pkhwtˀ n.f. foolishness
pkḥ vb. to become faint
pkḥw, pkḥwtˀ n.f. faintness
pkyh (pakkīh) adj. insipid; foolish
pkyhˀyt (pakkīhāˀīṯ) adv. foolishly
pkyhw, pkyhwtˀ (pakkīhū, pakkīhūṯā) n.f. insipidity

Hat tip:
Joachim Jeremias, _New Testament Theology: The Proclamation of Jesus_ (1971), 330pp., 28, who gives a hat tip to J. Lightfoot (1602-1675) (1686)
https://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-The...334016266/
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