When Jesus spoke in Aramaic what became Jn 13:13, do you think he used:
'Rabbi' (or 'our Rabbi')? 'διδάσκαλος'?
Do you think "φωνεῖτέ" was the correct word choice for Greek mss. for the passage?
John 13:13 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος,
καὶ καλῶς λέγετε, εἰμὶ γάρ.
John 13:13 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/john/13-13.htm
ye call me, The Teacher and The Lord, and ye say well, for I am;
Expositor's Greek Testament, John 13:13
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με, “ye call me,” in addressing me (φωνεῖν, not καλεῖν), ὁ διδάσκαλος καὶ ὁ κύριος “Teacher” and “Lord”; the nominativus tituli, see Winer, 226. Perhaps “Rabbi” would convey better the respect involved in διδάσκαλος.
John 13:13 (based on Younan)
You call me 'Rabban' and 'Maran,' ['our Rabbi/Teacher/Great-One' and 'our Master/Lord]
and you speak well, for I am.
J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
John 13^13 Ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος is bad Greek, just about as astonishing as if one should say in English: "you cry me teacher and lord." The right word, which John knew quite well, would have been καλεῖτε. Why did he ever write φωνεῖν?
Luke 6:46 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/6-46.htm
Τί δέ με καλεῖτε Κύριε κύριε, καὶ οὐ ποιεῖτε ἃ λέγω;
Luke 6:46 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-46.htm
'And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?
5455. phóneó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5455.htm
phóneó: to call out
Original Word: φωνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phóneó
Phonetic Spelling: (fo-neh'-o)
Definition: to call out
Usage: I give forth a sound, hence: (a) of a cock: I crow, (b) of men: I shout, (c ) trans: I call (to myself), summon; I invite, address.
==========================================================.
Do you think 5455/ φωνέω/ phóneó/ to call out, to cry out
belongs in the passages below?
snips throughout.
5455. φωνέω (phóneó)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_5455.htm
Strong's Greek: 5455. φωνέω (phóneó) — 43 Occurrences
Mark 9:35 V-AIA-3S
GRK: καὶ καθίσας ἐφώνησεν τοὺς δώδεκα
INT: And having sat down he called the twelve
Mark 10:49 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Φωνήσατε αὐτόν καὶ
INT: Jesus commanded to be called him And
Mark 10:49 V-PIA-3S
GRK: Θάρσει ἔγειρε φωνεῖ σε
INT: Take courage rise up he calls you
Luke 8:54 V-AIA-3S
GRK: χειρὸς αὐτῆς ἐφώνησεν λέγων Ἡ
NAS: her by the hand and called, saying,
Luke 14:12 V-PMA-2S
GRK: δεῖπνον μὴ φώνει τοὺς φίλους
INT: a supper not call friends
Luke 19:15 V-ANP
KJV: servants to be called unto him,
John 4:16 V-AMA-2S
GRK: αὐτῇ Ὕπαγε φώνησόν σου τὸν
NAS: to her, Go, call your husband
John 10:3 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ἴδια πρόβατα φωνεῖ κατ' ὄνομα
INT: own sheep he calls by name
John 11:28 V-PIA-3S
GRK: πάρεστιν καὶ φωνεῖ σε
NAS: is here and is calling for you.
John 13:13 V-PIA-2P
GRK: ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ
NAS: You call Me Teacher and Lord;
Mark 9 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/mark/9.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/mark/9-35.htm
33 And he came to Capernaum, and being in the house, he was questioning them, ‘What were ye reasoning in the way among yourselves?’ 34 and they were silent, for with one another they did reason in the way who is greater; 35 and having sat down he called the twelve, and he saith to them, ‘If any doth will to be first, he shall be last of all, and minister of all.’
5455/ ἐφώνησεν/ ephōnēsen
J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
....the sheep are "called" by their names, not cried at. The explanation is simple enough: in the original the Aramaic verb qera ['_' under q; '^' over a] had been used, quite idiomatically, and this verb has a very wide range of meanings: from the crowing of a cock to the reading of a book, the giving of a name to a child or of a title to an officer, from whispering to crying at the top of one's voice. What the interpreter did in both places [Jn 13:13 and Jn 10:3] is a case of mechanical, stereotyped rendering, a sort of "schoolboy's French" in Greek, as so often occurs in the LXX. It was indeed the common practice of early translators to strive after such "literal rendering." Both these are cases of translation-Semitisms.
'Rabbi' (or 'our Rabbi')? 'διδάσκαλος'?
Do you think "φωνεῖτέ" was the correct word choice for Greek mss. for the passage?
John 13:13 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος,
καὶ καλῶς λέγετε, εἰμὶ γάρ.
John 13:13 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/john/13-13.htm
ye call me, The Teacher and The Lord, and ye say well, for I am;
Expositor's Greek Testament, John 13:13
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/13-13.htm
ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με, “ye call me,” in addressing me (φωνεῖν, not καλεῖν), ὁ διδάσκαλος καὶ ὁ κύριος “Teacher” and “Lord”; the nominativus tituli, see Winer, 226. Perhaps “Rabbi” would convey better the respect involved in διδάσκαλος.
John 13:13 (based on Younan)
You call me 'Rabban' and 'Maran,' ['our Rabbi/Teacher/Great-One' and 'our Master/Lord]
and you speak well, for I am.
J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
John 13^13 Ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος is bad Greek, just about as astonishing as if one should say in English: "you cry me teacher and lord." The right word, which John knew quite well, would have been καλεῖτε. Why did he ever write φωνεῖν?
Luke 6:46 (Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants})
https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/6-46.htm
Τί δέ με καλεῖτε Κύριε κύριε, καὶ οὐ ποιεῖτε ἃ λέγω;
Luke 6:46 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-46.htm
'And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?
5455. phóneó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5455.htm
phóneó: to call out
Original Word: φωνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phóneó
Phonetic Spelling: (fo-neh'-o)
Definition: to call out
Usage: I give forth a sound, hence: (a) of a cock: I crow, (b) of men: I shout, (c ) trans: I call (to myself), summon; I invite, address.
==========================================================.
Do you think 5455/ φωνέω/ phóneó/ to call out, to cry out
belongs in the passages below?
snips throughout.
5455. φωνέω (phóneó)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_5455.htm
Strong's Greek: 5455. φωνέω (phóneó) — 43 Occurrences
Mark 9:35 V-AIA-3S
GRK: καὶ καθίσας ἐφώνησεν τοὺς δώδεκα
INT: And having sat down he called the twelve
Mark 10:49 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Φωνήσατε αὐτόν καὶ
INT: Jesus commanded to be called him And
Mark 10:49 V-PIA-3S
GRK: Θάρσει ἔγειρε φωνεῖ σε
INT: Take courage rise up he calls you
Luke 8:54 V-AIA-3S
GRK: χειρὸς αὐτῆς ἐφώνησεν λέγων Ἡ
NAS: her by the hand and called, saying,
Luke 14:12 V-PMA-2S
GRK: δεῖπνον μὴ φώνει τοὺς φίλους
INT: a supper not call friends
Luke 19:15 V-ANP
KJV: servants to be called unto him,
John 4:16 V-AMA-2S
GRK: αὐτῇ Ὕπαγε φώνησόν σου τὸν
NAS: to her, Go, call your husband
John 10:3 V-PIA-3S
GRK: ἴδια πρόβατα φωνεῖ κατ' ὄνομα
INT: own sheep he calls by name
John 11:28 V-PIA-3S
GRK: πάρεστιν καὶ φωνεῖ σε
NAS: is here and is calling for you.
John 13:13 V-PIA-2P
GRK: ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ
NAS: You call Me Teacher and Lord;
Mark 9 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/mark/9.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/mark/9-35.htm
33 And he came to Capernaum, and being in the house, he was questioning them, ‘What were ye reasoning in the way among yourselves?’ 34 and they were silent, for with one another they did reason in the way who is greater; 35 and having sat down he called the twelve, and he saith to them, ‘If any doth will to be first, he shall be last of all, and minister of all.’
5455/ ἐφώνησεν/ ephōnēsen
J. de Zwaan, "John Wrote in Aramaic" _Journal of Biblical Literature_ (1938), 155-171, 161
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3259746
....the sheep are "called" by their names, not cried at. The explanation is simple enough: in the original the Aramaic verb qera ['_' under q; '^' over a] had been used, quite idiomatically, and this verb has a very wide range of meanings: from the crowing of a cock to the reading of a book, the giving of a name to a child or of a title to an officer, from whispering to crying at the top of one's voice. What the interpreter did in both places [Jn 13:13 and Jn 10:3] is a case of mechanical, stereotyped rendering, a sort of "schoolboy's French" in Greek, as so often occurs in the LXX. It was indeed the common practice of early translators to strive after such "literal rendering." Both these are cases of translation-Semitisms.