03-13-2020, 10:55 PM
Should Rev 14:6 be rendered with:
“everlasting/eternal message/news”?
“age-during message/news”?
“universal message/news”?
Revelation 14:6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-6.htm
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm
And I saw another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having good news age-during to proclaim to those dwelling upon the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
166/ aiōnion/ αἰώνιον
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
14:6. The adjective aiṍnion [αἰώνιον], while almost inevitable as the rendering of Aramaic ᴄᴐlam, really mistranslates here, for the ᴄᴐlam to which it refers is not ho aiṍn but hē oikouménē. The Semitic noun with the latter meaning is common in late Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac. A frequently occurring Talmudic phrase is ʾummōt hᴐᴄōlᴐm, “the peoples of the world,” meaning especially the Gentiles, and it is this usage, precisely, that is intended in the present passage. The euangélion aiṍnion proclaimed here is not an “eternal message,” as it is ordinarily understood-- the idea of duration of time is not present at all; it is a “universal message,” as the verse goes on to declare, sent to the peoples of the earth, all nations, tribes, and tongues. Aramaic bᵉsōr, regularly rendered by euangélion, means simply “tidings,” whether good or bad.
Greg Glaser translations of Crawford Revelation 14:6
PDF: http://dukhrana.com/crawford/files/Revel...l-Data.pdf
linked to from
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
gospel/hope Alternate translations: "good tidings", "truth", "reason".
that to a world/age
to be preaching (plural) Alternate translation: "to evangelize them"
Revelation 14:6
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) And I saw another angel flying through heaven, who with blood [So SCHAFF, DE DlEU, and GUTBIR'S texts: but the Polyglots have not "with blood," a reading which admits of the same explanation as that given page 469.] had the
everlasting [Aramaic: d’l’ai-l-m: of/that to the world/age]
gospel [Aramaic: s-b-r-th-a: message/news]
to preach to them who dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe, and tongue and people;
(Murdock) And I saw another angel flying in heaven: and with blood, he had the everlasting gospel, to proclaim to dwellers on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
(Lamsa) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, to preach to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(KJV) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
a Dutch translation at http://dukhrana.com
Revelation 14:6 - (Daarop) zag ik [een andere engel] in het midden van de hemel vliegen en hij had het eeuwige Goede Nieuws bij zich om (dat) te verkondigen aan hen die op aarde wonen, aan ieder volk, (iedere) stam, taal en natie,
een andere engel - in de meeste Griekse manuscripten (‹MHT›) ontbreekt ‘andere’ (‹ἄλλον - allon- G243›), maar in de Griekse NA28, TR en in de Aramese Peshitta vinden wij dit woordje wel. Het probleem daarmee is dat er in het nabije tekstverband geen eerdere engel te vinden is, zodat de engel hier als ’andere engel’ aangeduid kan worden naast een eerdere. De laatste engel die voor dit vers werd genoemd, is te vinden in Op. 11:15. Het is de engel die de zevende bazuin blies. Als men echter ziet dat Op. 12 en 13 een soort intermezzo vormen waarin aan Johannes een aantal uiterst belangrijke gezichten worden getoond, voordat de lijn van de gebeurtenissen vanaf het einde van Op. 11 weer wordt opgepakt, zal men met deze afstand tussen de engel van de 7e bazuin en deze andere engel minder moeite hebben. Sommigen menen dat het woordje ‘andere’ in sommige manuscripten werd weggelaten omdat men hier juist wel moeite mee had. Weer anderen suggereren dat het woordje ‘andere’ hier is toegevoegd uit een behoefte aan harmonisatie, immers alle 5 nog volgende engelen in deze passage (‹Op. 14:8, 9, 15, 17, 18) worden aangeduid als ‘andere engelen’.
–We merken nog op dat het zestal engelen dat hier besproken wordt, wordt aangevuld met de Heer zelf in het midden van de zes (‹vs. 14, 16›), zodat er toch weer een voor Openbaring kenmerkend zevental ontstaat, deze keer op een wel heel bijzondere wijze.
het eeuwige Goede Nieuws - sommige vertalingen hebben ‘een eeuwig Evangelie’ ofwel ‘een eeuwig Goed Nieuws’, wat vanuit het Grieks gezien formeel juist is, maar de vraag is of de afwezigheid van het lidwoord in het Grieks altijd onbepaaldheid van het naamwoord impliceert. In ieder geval is de uitdrukking in de Aramese Peshitta op te vatten als bepaald. Paulus’ woorden in Gal. 1:6-9 mogen o.i. wel opgevat worden ter ondersteuning van de gedachte dat het hier om het eeuwige Evangelie gaat, en niet om ‘een’ Evangelie. Overigens wordt direct in de volgende verzen duidelijk wat die Evangelieverkondiging concreet inhoudt nl. God vrezen en de Schepper aanbidden en geen ander.
bij zich - deze tekst is onderdeel van de Aramese Peshitta, maar niet van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR.
Google translate:
Revelation 14: 6 - (Thereupon) I saw [another angel] flying in the midst of heaven and he had the eternal Good News with him to proclaim (that) to those who dwell on earth, to every people, (every) tribe, language and nation,
another angel - in most Greek manuscripts (‹MHT›)" other "(‹ ἄλλον - allon-G243 ›) is missing, but in the Greek NA28, TR and in the Aramaic Peshitta we find this word. The problem with this is that there is no previous angel in the near text, so that the angel can be referred to here as "another angel" next to a previous one. The last angel mentioned for this verse is found in Op. 11:15. It is the angel who blew the seventh trumpet. However, if one sees that Op. 12 and 13 form a kind of intermezzo in which Johannes is shown a number of extremely important faces, before the line of events from the end of Op. 11 will be picked up again, this distance between the angel of the 7th trumpet and this other angel will be less difficult. Some believe that the word "other" was omitted in some manuscripts because it was difficult to do so. Still others suggest that the word 'other' has been added here out of a need for harmonization, for all 5 subsequent angels in this passage (‹Rev. 14: 8, 9, 15, 17, 18) are referred to as 'other angels' . –Note that the six angels discussed here are supplemented by the Lord Himself in the middle of the six (‹vs. 14, 16›), so that yet again a seven typical of Revelation arises, this time on a very special way.
Eternal Good News - some translations have "an Eternal Gospel" or "an Eternal Good News," which is formally correct from the Greek perspective, but the question is whether the absence of the article in Greek always implies indeterminacy of the noun. In any case, the expression in the Aramaic Peshitta can be understood as determined. Paul's words in Gal. 1: 6-9 may be understood to support the idea that this is the eternal Gospel, and not "a" Gospel. Incidentally, it will immediately become clear in the following verses what this Gospel proclamation actually means, namely to fear God and worship the Creator and no other.
with him - this text is part of the Aramaic Peshitta, but not of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.
====================================.
Did Rev 15:2 originally read:
“harps of God”?
“harps of aloe”?
Revelation 15:2 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/15-2.htm
and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire,
and those who do gain the victory over the beast,
and his image,
and his mark,
and the number of his name,
standing by the sea of the glass,
having harps of God,
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
15:2 (last clause). : “Harps of God”-- a very strange expression, not justified by the context, nor by any parallel. The seer is shown a company standing by the glassy sea, prepared to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb and “holding harps of God”-- where we should expect some word really descriptive of the instruments. The phrase may perhaps not be pronounced “impossible,” but it certainly is to the last degree improbable. In any Hebrew or Aramaic text written at this time, care was taken to avoid the unnecessary use of names or designations of God; in this case the use of the word was not only unnecessary but also unnatural.
This phrase as it stands seems to designate a class, or collection, of harps. Charles, 2, 343, refers to 1 Chron. 16:42, kᵉlē šīr hɔʾɛlohīm and 2 Chron. 7:6 kᵉlē šīr YHWH; but (1) the introduction of the word šīr makes the case quite different; and (2) it is worth noticing that Targ. Chron. does not permit even this form of words, but in both passages inserts qɔdɔm (“in the presence of”) before the word designating God.
It can hardly be doubted that the present text is wrong. The Greek gives no foothold for emendation, but as soon as the Aramaic it renders is restored, the cause of the trouble is made clear. What the author of the Apocalypse wrote was not kinnɔrīn dī ʾɛlɔhɔʾ, “harps of God,” but kinnɔrīn dī ʾᵃlɔhɔʾ, “harps of aloes wood." This precious wood, famed for its fragrance (Psa. 45:9[8 English]; Prov. 7:17; Song of Songs 4:14), is precisely the material that would be expected in this place. The word was either carelessly miswritten or else too hastily translated. Another characteristic misreading.
Song of Solomon 4:14 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/songs/4-14.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/songs/4-14.htm
Cypresses with nard -- nard and saffron, Cane and cinnamon, With all trees of frankincense, Myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices.
174/ wa·’ă·hā·lō·wṯ/וַאֲהָל֔וֹת / and aloes
“everlasting/eternal message/news”?
“age-during message/news”?
“universal message/news”?
Revelation 14:6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-6.htm
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm
And I saw another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having good news age-during to proclaim to those dwelling upon the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
166/ aiōnion/ αἰώνιον
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
14:6. The adjective aiṍnion [αἰώνιον], while almost inevitable as the rendering of Aramaic ᴄᴐlam, really mistranslates here, for the ᴄᴐlam to which it refers is not ho aiṍn but hē oikouménē. The Semitic noun with the latter meaning is common in late Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac. A frequently occurring Talmudic phrase is ʾummōt hᴐᴄōlᴐm, “the peoples of the world,” meaning especially the Gentiles, and it is this usage, precisely, that is intended in the present passage. The euangélion aiṍnion proclaimed here is not an “eternal message,” as it is ordinarily understood-- the idea of duration of time is not present at all; it is a “universal message,” as the verse goes on to declare, sent to the peoples of the earth, all nations, tribes, and tongues. Aramaic bᵉsōr, regularly rendered by euangélion, means simply “tidings,” whether good or bad.
Greg Glaser translations of Crawford Revelation 14:6
PDF: http://dukhrana.com/crawford/files/Revel...l-Data.pdf
linked to from
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
gospel/hope Alternate translations: "good tidings", "truth", "reason".
that to a world/age
to be preaching (plural) Alternate translation: "to evangelize them"
Revelation 14:6
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_ver...ize=125%25
(Etheridge) And I saw another angel flying through heaven, who with blood [So SCHAFF, DE DlEU, and GUTBIR'S texts: but the Polyglots have not "with blood," a reading which admits of the same explanation as that given page 469.] had the
everlasting [Aramaic: d’l’ai-l-m: of/that to the world/age]
gospel [Aramaic: s-b-r-th-a: message/news]
to preach to them who dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe, and tongue and people;
(Murdock) And I saw another angel flying in heaven: and with blood, he had the everlasting gospel, to proclaim to dwellers on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
(Lamsa) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, to preach to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(KJV) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
a Dutch translation at http://dukhrana.com
Revelation 14:6 - (Daarop) zag ik [een andere engel] in het midden van de hemel vliegen en hij had het eeuwige Goede Nieuws bij zich om (dat) te verkondigen aan hen die op aarde wonen, aan ieder volk, (iedere) stam, taal en natie,
een andere engel - in de meeste Griekse manuscripten (‹MHT›) ontbreekt ‘andere’ (‹ἄλλον - allon- G243›), maar in de Griekse NA28, TR en in de Aramese Peshitta vinden wij dit woordje wel. Het probleem daarmee is dat er in het nabije tekstverband geen eerdere engel te vinden is, zodat de engel hier als ’andere engel’ aangeduid kan worden naast een eerdere. De laatste engel die voor dit vers werd genoemd, is te vinden in Op. 11:15. Het is de engel die de zevende bazuin blies. Als men echter ziet dat Op. 12 en 13 een soort intermezzo vormen waarin aan Johannes een aantal uiterst belangrijke gezichten worden getoond, voordat de lijn van de gebeurtenissen vanaf het einde van Op. 11 weer wordt opgepakt, zal men met deze afstand tussen de engel van de 7e bazuin en deze andere engel minder moeite hebben. Sommigen menen dat het woordje ‘andere’ in sommige manuscripten werd weggelaten omdat men hier juist wel moeite mee had. Weer anderen suggereren dat het woordje ‘andere’ hier is toegevoegd uit een behoefte aan harmonisatie, immers alle 5 nog volgende engelen in deze passage (‹Op. 14:8, 9, 15, 17, 18) worden aangeduid als ‘andere engelen’.
–We merken nog op dat het zestal engelen dat hier besproken wordt, wordt aangevuld met de Heer zelf in het midden van de zes (‹vs. 14, 16›), zodat er toch weer een voor Openbaring kenmerkend zevental ontstaat, deze keer op een wel heel bijzondere wijze.
het eeuwige Goede Nieuws - sommige vertalingen hebben ‘een eeuwig Evangelie’ ofwel ‘een eeuwig Goed Nieuws’, wat vanuit het Grieks gezien formeel juist is, maar de vraag is of de afwezigheid van het lidwoord in het Grieks altijd onbepaaldheid van het naamwoord impliceert. In ieder geval is de uitdrukking in de Aramese Peshitta op te vatten als bepaald. Paulus’ woorden in Gal. 1:6-9 mogen o.i. wel opgevat worden ter ondersteuning van de gedachte dat het hier om het eeuwige Evangelie gaat, en niet om ‘een’ Evangelie. Overigens wordt direct in de volgende verzen duidelijk wat die Evangelieverkondiging concreet inhoudt nl. God vrezen en de Schepper aanbidden en geen ander.
bij zich - deze tekst is onderdeel van de Aramese Peshitta, maar niet van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR.
Google translate:
Revelation 14: 6 - (Thereupon) I saw [another angel] flying in the midst of heaven and he had the eternal Good News with him to proclaim (that) to those who dwell on earth, to every people, (every) tribe, language and nation,
another angel - in most Greek manuscripts (‹MHT›)" other "(‹ ἄλλον - allon-G243 ›) is missing, but in the Greek NA28, TR and in the Aramaic Peshitta we find this word. The problem with this is that there is no previous angel in the near text, so that the angel can be referred to here as "another angel" next to a previous one. The last angel mentioned for this verse is found in Op. 11:15. It is the angel who blew the seventh trumpet. However, if one sees that Op. 12 and 13 form a kind of intermezzo in which Johannes is shown a number of extremely important faces, before the line of events from the end of Op. 11 will be picked up again, this distance between the angel of the 7th trumpet and this other angel will be less difficult. Some believe that the word "other" was omitted in some manuscripts because it was difficult to do so. Still others suggest that the word 'other' has been added here out of a need for harmonization, for all 5 subsequent angels in this passage (‹Rev. 14: 8, 9, 15, 17, 18) are referred to as 'other angels' . –Note that the six angels discussed here are supplemented by the Lord Himself in the middle of the six (‹vs. 14, 16›), so that yet again a seven typical of Revelation arises, this time on a very special way.
Eternal Good News - some translations have "an Eternal Gospel" or "an Eternal Good News," which is formally correct from the Greek perspective, but the question is whether the absence of the article in Greek always implies indeterminacy of the noun. In any case, the expression in the Aramaic Peshitta can be understood as determined. Paul's words in Gal. 1: 6-9 may be understood to support the idea that this is the eternal Gospel, and not "a" Gospel. Incidentally, it will immediately become clear in the following verses what this Gospel proclamation actually means, namely to fear God and worship the Creator and no other.
with him - this text is part of the Aramaic Peshitta, but not of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.
====================================.
Did Rev 15:2 originally read:
“harps of God”?
“harps of aloe”?
Revelation 15:2 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/15-2.htm
and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire,
and those who do gain the victory over the beast,
and his image,
and his mark,
and the number of his name,
standing by the sea of the glass,
having harps of God,
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_to...e-of-john/
15:2 (last clause). : “Harps of God”-- a very strange expression, not justified by the context, nor by any parallel. The seer is shown a company standing by the glassy sea, prepared to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb and “holding harps of God”-- where we should expect some word really descriptive of the instruments. The phrase may perhaps not be pronounced “impossible,” but it certainly is to the last degree improbable. In any Hebrew or Aramaic text written at this time, care was taken to avoid the unnecessary use of names or designations of God; in this case the use of the word was not only unnecessary but also unnatural.
This phrase as it stands seems to designate a class, or collection, of harps. Charles, 2, 343, refers to 1 Chron. 16:42, kᵉlē šīr hɔʾɛlohīm and 2 Chron. 7:6 kᵉlē šīr YHWH; but (1) the introduction of the word šīr makes the case quite different; and (2) it is worth noticing that Targ. Chron. does not permit even this form of words, but in both passages inserts qɔdɔm (“in the presence of”) before the word designating God.
It can hardly be doubted that the present text is wrong. The Greek gives no foothold for emendation, but as soon as the Aramaic it renders is restored, the cause of the trouble is made clear. What the author of the Apocalypse wrote was not kinnɔrīn dī ʾɛlɔhɔʾ, “harps of God,” but kinnɔrīn dī ʾᵃlɔhɔʾ, “harps of aloes wood." This precious wood, famed for its fragrance (Psa. 45:9[8 English]; Prov. 7:17; Song of Songs 4:14), is precisely the material that would be expected in this place. The word was either carelessly miswritten or else too hastily translated. Another characteristic misreading.
Song of Solomon 4:14 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/songs/4-14.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/songs/4-14.htm
Cypresses with nard -- nard and saffron, Cane and cinnamon, With all trees of frankincense, Myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices.
174/ wa·’ă·hā·lō·wṯ/וַאֲהָל֔וֹת / and aloes