01-05-2020, 09:45 PM
How do you think Lk 21:12-13 ought read?
How about: Mk 7:3? Jn 4:35-36? Jn 7:21-22? Lk 24:9-10?
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 4-5
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslate...ey/page/n1
The great freedom in the order of words of the Aram. sentence, and especially the manner of emphasizing a word by putting it at the beginning or end of a clause, occasionally produced ambiguity, as the translator rendered word by word. In this way arose the strange reading in Mk. 7:3, where the Jews are said to wash their hands "with the fist."
Hence also the "already," which in the Aram. of Jn. 4 stood at the end of vs. 35, was by the Grk. translator made to stand at the beginning of vs. 36. Argument for the date of the Gospel has been based on this translator's error-- for such it certainly is.
Another similar instance is the false position of the phrase "because of this"... which now forms the beginning of Jn. 7:22, whereas it was intended to end the preceding verse. Ordinarily, indeed, it stands at the head of its sentence or clause.
The frequently abrupt beginning of the Aram. sentence, without introductory conjunction or adverb, sometimes misleads the Grk. translator, where the context leaves room for doubt as to the connection intended. An example is Lk. 21:12 f., where the parallels in Mk. and Mt. [Mt 10:18, Mk 13:9] make it certain that the true reading is: "Before kings and governors, for my name's sake, you will be brought for testimony."
A more important instance is the passage Lk. 24:9 ff., in which the honor of being the first to bring to the disciples the news of the resurrection is by the Grk. translator taken away from Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James, and given to "the other women."
CVB 2.3, Luke
21:12 But before all these things,
they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you,
delivering you up to synagogues and prisons,
bringing you before kings and governors for my name’s sake.
21:13 It will turn out as a testimony for you.
Lk 21:12-13 (based on Younan)
But before all these things,
they will lay hands upon you and persecute you,
and they will deliver you to the assemblies and to the prisons,
and they will bring you before malka [kings] and governors because of my name,
but it will be to you for a testimony.
Mark 7:3 (King James)
https://biblehub.com/mark/7-3.htm
For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/mark/7-3.htm
Verse 3. - Except they wash their hands oft. The Greek word here rendered "oft" is πυγμῇ: literally, with the fist, i.e. with the closed hand, rubbing one against the other. This word has caused a vast amount of criticism; and the difficulty of explaining it seems to have led to the adoption of a conjectural reading (πυκνῷς or πυκνῇ) rendered "oft;" crebro in the Vulgate. But the Syriac Peshito Version renders the Greek word by a word which means "diligently," and it is interesting and helpful, as a matter of exegesis, to know that it also renders the Greek word (ἐπιμελῶς) in Luke 15:8 by the same Syriac synonym, "diligently."
4435. pugmé
https://biblehub.com/greek/4435.htm
pugmé: the fist
Original Word: πυγμή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pugmé
Phonetic Spelling: (poog-may')
Definition: the fist
Usage: the fist.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pux (the fist)
Definition
the fist
John 4:35-36 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...sion=NABRE
35 Do you not say, ‘In four months the harvest will be here’? I tell you, look up and see the fields ripe for the harvest. 36 The reaper is already[b] receiving his payment and gathering crops for eternal life, so that the sower and reaper can rejoice together.
b: Already: this word may go with the preceding verse rather than with Jn 4:36.
John 7 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/blb/john/7.htm
21 Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel.
22 Because of the fact that Moses has given you circumcision (not that it is of Moses, but of the fathers) also on the Sabbath you circumcise a man.
CVB, Lk 24
24:8 They remembered his words, 24:9 returned from the tomb, and told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest. 24:10 Now they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. The other women with them told these things to the apostles.
Luke 24 (based on Younan)
8. And they remembered his words. 9. And they returned from the grave and told all these things to the eleven and to the rest. 10. Now they were Maryam of Magdala and Yokan and Maryam the mother of Yaqub and others who were with them, those who had told the Shelikha [Apostles].
How about: Mk 7:3? Jn 4:35-36? Jn 7:21-22? Lk 24:9-10?
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 4-5
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslate...ey/page/n1
The great freedom in the order of words of the Aram. sentence, and especially the manner of emphasizing a word by putting it at the beginning or end of a clause, occasionally produced ambiguity, as the translator rendered word by word. In this way arose the strange reading in Mk. 7:3, where the Jews are said to wash their hands "with the fist."
Hence also the "already," which in the Aram. of Jn. 4 stood at the end of vs. 35, was by the Grk. translator made to stand at the beginning of vs. 36. Argument for the date of the Gospel has been based on this translator's error-- for such it certainly is.
Another similar instance is the false position of the phrase "because of this"... which now forms the beginning of Jn. 7:22, whereas it was intended to end the preceding verse. Ordinarily, indeed, it stands at the head of its sentence or clause.
The frequently abrupt beginning of the Aram. sentence, without introductory conjunction or adverb, sometimes misleads the Grk. translator, where the context leaves room for doubt as to the connection intended. An example is Lk. 21:12 f., where the parallels in Mk. and Mt. [Mt 10:18, Mk 13:9] make it certain that the true reading is: "Before kings and governors, for my name's sake, you will be brought for testimony."
A more important instance is the passage Lk. 24:9 ff., in which the honor of being the first to bring to the disciples the news of the resurrection is by the Grk. translator taken away from Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James, and given to "the other women."
CVB 2.3, Luke
21:12 But before all these things,
they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you,
delivering you up to synagogues and prisons,
bringing you before kings and governors for my name’s sake.
21:13 It will turn out as a testimony for you.
Lk 21:12-13 (based on Younan)
But before all these things,
they will lay hands upon you and persecute you,
and they will deliver you to the assemblies and to the prisons,
and they will bring you before malka [kings] and governors because of my name,
but it will be to you for a testimony.
Mark 7:3 (King James)
https://biblehub.com/mark/7-3.htm
For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/mark/7-3.htm
Verse 3. - Except they wash their hands oft. The Greek word here rendered "oft" is πυγμῇ: literally, with the fist, i.e. with the closed hand, rubbing one against the other. This word has caused a vast amount of criticism; and the difficulty of explaining it seems to have led to the adoption of a conjectural reading (πυκνῷς or πυκνῇ) rendered "oft;" crebro in the Vulgate. But the Syriac Peshito Version renders the Greek word by a word which means "diligently," and it is interesting and helpful, as a matter of exegesis, to know that it also renders the Greek word (ἐπιμελῶς) in Luke 15:8 by the same Syriac synonym, "diligently."
4435. pugmé
https://biblehub.com/greek/4435.htm
pugmé: the fist
Original Word: πυγμή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pugmé
Phonetic Spelling: (poog-may')
Definition: the fist
Usage: the fist.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pux (the fist)
Definition
the fist
John 4:35-36 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...sion=NABRE
35 Do you not say, ‘In four months the harvest will be here’? I tell you, look up and see the fields ripe for the harvest. 36 The reaper is already[b] receiving his payment and gathering crops for eternal life, so that the sower and reaper can rejoice together.
b: Already: this word may go with the preceding verse rather than with Jn 4:36.
John 7 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/blb/john/7.htm
21 Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel.
22 Because of the fact that Moses has given you circumcision (not that it is of Moses, but of the fathers) also on the Sabbath you circumcise a man.
CVB, Lk 24
24:8 They remembered his words, 24:9 returned from the tomb, and told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest. 24:10 Now they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. The other women with them told these things to the apostles.
Luke 24 (based on Younan)
8. And they remembered his words. 9. And they returned from the grave and told all these things to the eleven and to the rest. 10. Now they were Maryam of Magdala and Yokan and Maryam the mother of Yaqub and others who were with them, those who had told the Shelikha [Apostles].