book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic?

[DavidFord]

"'Isaiah 9:5 a child has been born a child has been given to us...' This is past tense!!!! This verse was written 500 years before your i d o l was born."
Do you disagree with any of this?: from
https://preachersinstitute.com/2016/09/0...etic-text/
For example, it is helpful to know that Hebrew does not have a past or future tense, but only a perfect and imperfect tense… and so just because an English translation is clearly in either the past, present, or future tense, it does not necessarily mean that this is what is implied by the Hebrew original. One often encounters the use of the “prophetic perfect”, where a prophecy of something that has not yet come to pass is in the perfect tense, and so is often translated with the English past tense, e.g. …with His stripes, we were healed (Isaiah 53:5), when from the perspective of the prophet, he was speaking of something in the future.

Do you disagree with any of this?:
Hebrew Tenses
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text...brtens.htm
There is no such thing as "tense" in biblical Hebrew. (Modern Hebrew, on the other hand, does have tenses.) Biblical Hebrew is not a "tense" language. Modern grammarians recognize that it is an "aspectual" language. This means that the same form of a verb can be translated as either past, present, or future depending on the context and various grammatical cues. The most well known grammatical cue is the "vav-consecutive" that makes an imperfective verb to refer to the past.
Therefore it is wrong to say that Isaiah 53 or other prophecies are in the "past tense." BIblical Hebrew has no tenses. There are many examples of what is wrongly called the "past tense" form (properly called "the perfective" or "perfect") being used for future time.
This fact was recognized by the medieval commentators as well as by modern grammarians.
Proofs ....

"It says there he will accept the Torah the word of God on his shoulders. The verses are definitely not talkin about anything that you believe in."
You said that you believe the identity of the Isaiah 9:6 person is "king David or king Solomon. .... Maybe it's Santa Claus." In looking at Isaiah 9:6, do you consider:
King David: "Mighty God"? "Everlasting Father"?
King Solomon: "Mighty God"? "Everlasting Father"?
Santa Claus: "Mighty God"? "Everlasting Father"?

[DavidFord]

"Only the first five books of the LXX were translated by Jews. The rest (including Isaiah) was translated by CHRISTIANS" Reference for "the rest (including Isaiah) was translated by CHRISTIANS"?
Cave 4 of the Qumran caves has many readings similar to what appears in the LXX-- and dissimilar to the Masoretic.

00 Contents; Abbreviations; To the Reader of NETS, a PDF at
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/
According to legend it was seventy(-two) Jerusalem elders who at the behest of King Ptolemy II (285–246 BCE) and with the consent of High Priest Eleazaros translated the Scriptures of Egyptian Jewry into Greek from a Jerusalem manuscript inscribed in gold. ... “Scripture,” however, comprised only... the Pentateuch. Other books were translated in subsequent centuries and also in other locations.

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
The Septuagint (from the Latin: septuāgintā literally "seventy", often abbreviated as LXX and sometimes called the Greek Old Testament) is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures from the original Hebrew.[1] It is estimated that the first five books of the Old Testament, known as the Torah or Pentateuch, were translated in the mid-3rd century BCE and the remaining texts were translated in the 2nd century BCE.[2]

IMO, those who translated the Old Testament into Greek while producing the LXX came up with "virgin." A young woman giving birth to a child is no big deal and can't be a sign from God, unless she's clearly below child-bearing age, or she's a virgin.

[DavidFord]

"your Greek Jesus/christos/alpha omega is not but a composite of the Greek idols"
And who is the Jehudian Yeshua Meshikha/ Alap & Tau/ Master YHWH, he who is and has been and is coming, the Almighty?
Revelation 1 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-engli...tion/1.htm
1 The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan, 2 Who witnessed the word of God and the testimony of Yeshua The Messiah - everything whatever he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy and keep those things that are written in it, for the time is near.
4 Yohannan to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from The One Who is, and was, and is coming, and from The Seven Spirits which are before his throne, 5 And from Yeshua The Messiah, the Trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead and The Ruler of the Kings of The Earth- him who loves us and has loosed us from our sins by his blood. 6 And he has made us The Priestly Kingdom to God and his Father; to him be glory and Empire to the eternity of eternities. Amen. 7 Behold, he comes with clouds and every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him, and all the families of The Earth shall mourn for him; yes and amen!
8 I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.

[DavidFord]

Deut 32:8: is it: "sons/children of Israel"? "sons/children of God" i.e. "angels of God"?

Deut 32:8 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
https://biblehub.com/jps/deuteronomy/32.htm
When the Most High gave to the nations
When He separated the children of men,
He set the borders of the peoples
According to the number of the *children of Israel.*

Samaritan Pentateuch, Benyamim Tsedaka translation: *Sons of Yishraael*
Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation: *children of Israel*

Deut 32:8 (Brenton Septuagint Translation)
https://biblehub.com/sep/deuteronomy/32.htm
When the Most High divided the nations,
when he separated the sons of Adam,
he set the bounds of the nations
according to the number of the *angels of God.*

Deut 32:8 (_A New English Translation of the Septuagint_)
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/
When the Most High was apportioning nations,
as he scattered Adam’s sons,
he fixed boundaries of nations
according to the number of *divine sons.*

_Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English_, translated and with commentary by Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint & Eugene Ulrich (1999), 649pp., 191
*4QDeut^j, however, specifies it as the number of the "children of God," apparently denoting the divine beings who would serve as protectors for various nations.* See also vs. 43.

[DavidFord]

Jesus posed a question to the Sapra/Scribes, and posed a separate question to the Pharisees.
What are your answers to those 2 questions?

Mark 12, based on Paul Younan's translation of the original Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com
35. And Yeshua, while teaching in the temple, answered and said,
"How do the Sapra [Scribes] say that the Meshikha is the son of Dawid?
36. For Dawid spoke by the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness] that,
Said MrYa [Master YHWH] to Mari [my Lord],
Sit yourself on my right,
until I place your enemies (as) a footstool under your feet'.'
37. Since Dawid calls him 'Mari,' how then is he his son?"
And all of the crowd were gladly hearing him.

Mt 22
41-42. Now while the Pharisees were assembled, Yeshua asked them and said,
"What do you say about the Meshikha?
Who is he the son (of)?"
They were saying to him, "The Son of Dawid." 43. He said to them,
"Then how (is it that) Dawid in the Rukh [Spirit] calls him MrYa-- for he said that,
"'MrYa said to Mari,
You sit at my right (hand)
until I place your enemies under your feet.'"
45. Therefore, if Dawid calls him MrYa, how is he his son?"
46. And no man was able to give him an answer.
And no man dared again from that day (on) to question him.

Luke 20
41-43. And he would say to them,
"How is it that the Sapra say concerning the Meshikha that he is the Son of Dawid,
and he-- Dawid-- said in the kethaba [book] of the Psalms that,
'MrYa said to Mari,
Sit at my right (hand)
until that I put your enemies under your feet.'
44. Therefore, if Dawid calls him 'Mari,'
how is it that he is his son?"

Acts 2
34-35. For it was not (that) Dawid did ascend to Heaven, because he said that,
'Said MrYa [Master YHWH] to Mari [my Lord],
Sit yourself at my right (hand),
until I place your enemies (as) a footstool for your feet'.'
36. Certainly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know that Allaha has made this Yeshua, whom you crucified, MrYa and Meshikha."

Acts 2:36, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Assuredly, then, let all the house of Israel know, that Lord and Meshiha hath Aloha made this Jeshu, whom you crucified.
(Murdock) Therefore, let all the house of Israel know, assuredly, that God hath made that Jesus whom ye crucified, to be Lord and Messiah.
(KJV) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 1:13
(Etheridge) But to which from (among) the angels hath he said at any time, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine adversaries a footstool beneath thy feet?
(Murdock) And to which of the angels did he ever say : Sit thou at my right hand, until I shall place thy enemies a footstool under thy feet ?
(Lamsa) For to which of the angels has he at any time said, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool under your feet?
(KJV) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Hebrews 10:13
(Etheridge) waiting from henceforth until his adversaries are set as a footstool beneath his feet.
(Murdock) and thenceforth waited, until his foes should be placed as a footstool under his feet.
(Lamsa) From henceforth there he will remain until his enemies are placed as a foot-stool under his feet.
(KJV) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

---

Isaiah 7:14

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#7:14
Is it "the LORD"?-1QIsa^a
Or is it "my Lord"?-Masoretic
Is it "his name will be"?-1QIsa^a
Or is it "she will name him"-Masoretic

The LXX says "virgin"-- how do you explain that?
Jonathan ben Uzziel in his Aramaic paraphrase & interpretation of Isaiah, as translated by Pauli, says "virgin"-- how do you explain that?
The Peshitta Tanakh, as translated by Lamsa, says "virgin"-- how do you explain that?

Isaiah 7 (Brenton Septuagint Translation), https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/7.htm
10 And the Lord again spoke to Achaz, saying, 11 Ask for thyself a sign of the Lord thy God, in the depth or in the height. 12 And Achaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord. 13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; is it a little thing for you to contend with men? and how do ye contend against the Lord? 14 Therefore *the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel.* 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know good or evil, he refuses evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which thou art afraid of because of the two kings.

_A New English Translation of the Septuagint_, PDF 33 Esaias, tr. Moisés Silva, http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/
10 And the Lord spoke further to Achaz, saying, 11 Ask for yourself a sign of the Lord your God, in depth or in height. 12 But Achaz said, I will not ask, nor will I put the Lord to the test. 13 Then hed said: “Hear now, O house of Dauid! Is it a small thing for you to provoke a fight with mortals? How then do you provoke a fight with the Lord? 14 Therefore *the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and you shall name him Emmanouel.* 15 He shall eat butter and honey; before he knows or prefers evil things, he shall choose what is good. 16 For before the child knows good or bad, he defies evil to choose what is good, and the land that you fear from before the two kings will be abandoned. 17 But God will bring on you and on your people and on your ancestral house such days as have not yet come since the day that he took Ephraim away from Ioudas-- the king of the Assyrians.”

_The Chaldee Paraphrase on the Prophet Isaiah [by Jonathan b. Uzziel]_ (1871), translated by C.W.H. Pauli
https://archive.org/stream/chaldeeparaph...g_djvu.txt ISAIAH VII
14 Therefore *the Lord Himself shall give you a sign* ; *Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and she shall call His name Immanuel.*

Isaiah 7:14 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation), http://superbook.org/LAMSA/ISA/isa7.htm
Therefore the LORD himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1 (based on Paul Younan's translation of the original Aramaic), http://dukhrana.com
22. And all this happened that it might be fulfilled what was said by MrYa [Master YHWH] from the nabia [prophet],
23. "Behold, a virgin will conceive and give birth to a son,
and they will call his name Aimnuail,"
which is interpreted 'Aimn Allahan.'
[With-us (is) our-Allaha, i.e. our God is with us. The last part of Aimnuail is 'ail,' which is short for Elohim, which means Allaha.]

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"behold, the young woman is with child" What Bible version are you using?
"IMMANUEL WAS ISAIAH'S OWN SON, HIS MOTHER IS ALREADY PREGNANT WITH THE CHILD" Is it your belief that "the prophetess" was pregnant *before* Isaiah "went unto the prophetess; and she conceived"? Is it your belief that a particular child was named both "God is with us" and also named "The spoil speedeth, the prey hasteth"?

Isaiah 7 (JPS Tanakh 1917), https://biblehub.com/jps/isaiah/7.htm
10 And the LORD spoke again unto Ahaz, saying:
11 ‘Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God: ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.’
12 But Ahaz said: ‘I will not ask, neither will I try the LORD.’
13 And he said: ‘Hear ye now, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to weary men, that ye will weary my God also?
14 Therefore *the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [footnote: That is, God is with us].* 15 Curd and honey shall he eat, when he knoweth to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 Yea, before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land whose two kings thou hast a horror of shall be forsaken.

Isaiah 8 (JPS Tanakh 1917), https://biblehub.com/jps/isaiah/8.htm
1 And the LORD said unto me: ‘Take thee a great tablet, and write upon it in common script: The spoil speedeth, the prey hasteth; 2 and I will take unto Me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.’ 3 And *I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bore a son.* Then *said the LORD unto me: ‘Call his name Maher-shalal-hashbaz [footnote: That is, The spoil speedeth, the prey hasteth].* 4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry: My father, and: My mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be carried away before the king of Assyria.’

[DavidFord]

What's the identity of "the angel of the LORD" here?:
Exodus 3 (JPS Tanakh 1917), https://biblehub.com/jps/exodus/3.htm
1 Now Moses was keeping the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the farthest end of the wilderness, and came to the mountain of God, unto Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said: ‘I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.’ 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said: ‘Moses, Moses.’ And he said: ‘Here am I.’ 5 And He said: ‘Draw not nigh hither; put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.’ 6 Moreover He said: ‘I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said....

---

"what's called the Septuagint today was translated by Christians and is hopelessly corrupted"
3 examples of that corruption? In Qumran Cave 4 there were discovered many instances of a Hebrew mss. tradition that matches the LXX and doesn't match the Masoretic. There are over 500 instances where the LXX Torah is identical to the Samaritan Pentateuch, and differ from the corrupt Masoretic.

[DavidFord]

What's the identity of the person described in Isaiah 52:13-53:13?
Jonathan ben Uzziel authored 2,000 years ago an Aramaic Targum i.e. paraphrase & interpretation of Isaiah, which Tzvi Nassi aka Christian William Henry Pauli translated. Jonathan ben Uzziel "lived thirty years before the birth of" Yeshua Meshikha, and "was a disciple of Hillel." He's a different person than "the Pseudo Jonathan Ben Uziel, who wrote a Chaldee Paraphrase on the Pentateuch and the hagiographical books."

_The Chaldee paraphrase on the prophet Isaiah [by Jonathan b. Uzziel]_ (1871), translated by C.W.H. Pauli
https://archive.org/stream/chaldeeparaph...g_djvu.txt
hat tip: _Targum Isaiah In English with Parallel Jewish and Christian Texts_ (2012), 248pp.
https://www.amazon.com/Tsiyon-Targum-Eng...96794712X/
13 Behold, *my servant the Messiah shall prosper.* He shall be exalted and extolled, and He shall be very strong. 14 As the house of Israel anxiously hoped for Him many days, (which was poor among the nations ; their appearance and their brightness being worse than that of the sons of men : ) 15 Thus shall He scatter many nations; before Him kings shall keep silence : they shall put their hands upon their mouths, for that which had not been told them shall they see: and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
Chapter LIII
1 Who hath believed this our report? and to whom is now the power of the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 The righteous shall be great before Him, behold, like branches that bud; and like a tree which sends forth its roots by the streams of water, thus shall the generation of the just multiply in the land, which hath need of Him. 3 His visage shall not be the visage of a common person, neither His fear the fear of a plebeian ; but a holy brightness shall be His brightness, that every one who seeth Him shall contemplate Him. 4 Although He shall be in contempt ; yet He shall cut off the glory of all the wicked, they shall be weak and wretched. Lo, we are in contempt and not esteemed, as a man of pain and appointed to sickness, and as if He had removed the face of His Shekinah from us. 5 Therefore *He shall pray for our sins, and our* *iniquities for His sake shall be forgiven us;* for we are considered crushed, smitten of the Lord, and affllicted.
6 He shall build the house of the sanctuary,which has been profaned on account of our sins ; *He was delivered over on account of our iniquities,* *and through His doctrine peace shall* *be multiplied upon us, and through the teaching* *of His words our sins shall be forgiven us.* 7 All we like sheep have been scattered, every one of us has turned to his own way ; *it pleased* *the Lord to forgive the sins of all of us for His sake.* 8 He shall pray and He shall be answered, yea, before He shall open His mouth. He shall be heard ; He shall deliver over the mighty of the nations as a lamb to the slaughter, and like a sheep before her shearers is dumb, none shall in His presence open his mouth, or speak a word. 9 *He shall gather our captives from affliction* *and pain, and who shall be able to narrate the* *wonderful works which shall be done for us in His days?* He shall remove the rule of the nations from the land of Israel, the sins which my people have committed have come upon them. 10 And He shall deliver the wicked into hell, and the riches of treasures which they got by violence unto the death of Abaddon, that they who commit sin shall not remain, and that they should not speak folly with their mouth.
11 And it was the pleasure of the Lord to refine and to purify the remnant of His people, in order to cleanse their souls from sin, that they might *see the kingdom of their Messiah,* that their sons and daughters might multiply, and prolong their days, and those that keep the law of the Lord shall prosper through His pleasure. 12 He shall deliver their souls from the servitude of the nations, they shall see the vengeance upon their enemies; they shall be satisfied with the spoil of their kings. By His wisdom He shall justify the righteous, in order to make many to keep the law, and *He shall pray for their sins.* 13 Therefore I will divide to Him the spoil of many people, and the treasures of strong fortifications; *He shall divide the spoil;* because *He has delivered His life unto death,* and He shall make the rebellious to keep the law; *He shall pray* *for the sins of many, and as for the transgressors,* *each shall be pardoned for His sake.*

Isaiah 53 (Brenton Septuagint Translation)
https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/53.htm
1 O Lord, who has believed our report?
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 We brought a report as of a child before him;
he is as a root in a thirsty land:
he has no form nor comeliness;
and we saw him,
but he had no form nor beauty.
3 But his form was ignoble,
and inferior to that of the children of men;
he was a man in suffering,
and acquainted with the bearing of sickness,
for his face is turned from us:
he was dishonoured, and not esteemed.
4 *He bears our sins,*
and is pained for us:
yet we accounted him to be in trouble,
and in suffering, and in affliction.
5 But *he was wounded on account of our sins,*
and *was bruised because of our iniquities:*
*the chastisement of our peace was upon him;*
and *by his bruises we were healed.*
6 All we as sheep have gone astray;
every one has gone astray in his way;
and *the Lord gave him up for our sins.*
7 And he, because of his affliction,
opens not his mouth:
he was led as a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb,
so he opens not his mouth.
8 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away:
who shall declare his generation?
for his life is taken away from the earth:
*because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.*
9 And I will give the wicked for his burial,
and the rich for his death;
for he practised no iniquity,
nor craft with his mouth.
10 The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke.
If ye can give an offering for sin,
your soul shall see a long-lived seed:
11 the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul,
to shew him light,
and to form him with understanding;
to justify the just one who serves many well;
and *he shall bear their sins.*
12 Therefore he shall inherit many,
and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty;
because his soul was delivered to death:
and he was numbered among the transgressors;
and *he bore the sins of many,*
and *was delivered because of their iniquities.*

"he is explicitly identified on several occasions as 'Israel'”
In which Isaiah 53 verses do you see reference to the nation of Israel?

To get what's below, I altered the Isaiah 53 text, and inserted 'nation of Israel,' 'Israel,' 'she,' 'her,' and 'woman.' Does this sound right to you?:
1 O Lord, who has believed our report?
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 We brought a report as of a child before him;
the nation of Israel is as a root in a thirsty land:
she has no form nor comeliness;
and we saw her,
but Israel had no form nor beauty.
3 But her form was ignoble,
and inferior to that of the children of men;
she was a woman in suffering,
and acquainted with the bearing of sickness,
for her face is turned from us:
she was dishonoured, and not esteemed.
4 She bears our sins,
and is pained for us:
yet we accounted her to be in trouble,
and in suffering, and in affliction.
5 But she was wounded on account of our sins,
and was bruised because of our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon her;
and by her bruises we were healed.
6 All we as sheep have gone astray;
every one has gone astray in his way;
and the Lord gave her up for our sins.
7 And she, because of her affliction,
opens not her mouth:
she was led as a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb,
so she opens not her mouth.
8 In her humiliation her judgment was taken away:
who shall declare her generation?
for her life is taken away from the earth:
because of the iniquities of my people she was led to death.
9 And I will give the wicked for her burial,
and the rich for her death;
for she practised no iniquity,
nor craft with her mouth.
10 The Lord also is pleased to purge her from his stroke.
If ye can give an offering for sin,
your soul shall see a long-lived seed:
11 the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of her soul,
to shew her light,
and to form her with understanding;
to justify the just one who serves many well;
and she shall bear their sins.
12 Therefore she shall inherit many,
and she shall divide the spoils of the mighty;
because her soul was delivered to death:
and she was numbered among the transgressors;
and she bore the sins of many,
and was delivered because of their iniquities.

[DavidFord]

Isaiah 53:11 (Brenton Septuagint Translation) https://biblehub.com/sep/isaiah/53.htm
the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul,
to shew him light,
and to form him with understanding;
to justify the just one who serves many well;
and he shall bear their sins.

Isaiah 53:11 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation)
He shall see the reward of the travail of his soul,
and be satisfied with the knowledge;
he shall justify the righteous;
for he is a servant of many,
and he shall bear their sins.

Isaiah 53:11 (Dead Sea Scrolls), http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#53:11, _Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English_, translated and with commentary by Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint & Eugene Ulrich (1999), 649pp., 360:
_Out of the suffering of his soul he will see light,_ ^1178
_and_ ^1179 find satisfaction.
_And_ ^1180 through his knowledge _his servant,_ ^1181 the righteous one,
will make many righteous,
and he will bear their iniquities.
1178: 1QIsa^a 1QIsa^b 4QIsa^d LXX. _He will see some of the suffering of his soul_ MT [Masoretic Text]
1179: 1QIsa^a 4QIsa^d (questionable). Not in MT.
1180: 1QIsa^a. Not in 4QIsa^d MT.
1181: 1QIsa^a. _my servant_ 4QIsa^d MT.

Isaiah 53:11 (JPS Tanakh 1917) https://biblehub.com/jps/isaiah/53.htm
Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant,
Who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many,
And their iniquities he did bear.

2,000 year-old Aramaic paraphrase and interpretation: Isaiah 52:13, 53:11 _The Chaldee Paraphrase on the Prophet Isaiah [by Jonathan b. Uzziel]_ (1871), translated by C.W.H. Pauli
https://archive.org/stream/chaldeeparaph...g_djvu.txt
hat tip: _Targum Isaiah In English with Parallel Jewish and Christian Texts_ (2012), 248pp.
https://www.amazon.com/Tsiyon-Targum-Eng...96794712X/
13 Behold, my servant the Messiah shall prosper.
He shall be exalted and extolled,
and He shall be very strong. ....
11 And it was the pleasure of the Lord to refine and to purify the remnant of His people,
in order to cleanse their souls from sin,
that they might see the kingdom of their Messiah,
that their sons and daughters might multiply, and prolong their days,
and those that keep the law of the Lord shall prosper through His pleasure.

[DavidFord]

From
https://www.aish.com/jl/li/m/48944241.html
"They wanted nothing to disturb or distract them, in order that they should be able to strive to become worthy of the life in the World to Come."
How can one become "worthy of the life in the World to Come"?

"The Messiah will also achieve prophecy and become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses."
While on earth, the prophet Yeshua Meshikha made several predictions about what would happen shortly. Do you agree with me that Yeshua made several successful prophecies about the calamities that occurred to Jerusalem and its temple?
George Peter Holford's _The Destruction of Jerusalem_ (1805, 1814, 1858) http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/18...proof.html
hat tip: https://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Jerus...967831725/
from PDF http://vladspost.com/pdf/Jews/Destructio...usalem.pdf
Of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled, few, perhaps, are so interesting in themselves, or so striking in their accomplishment, as those which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the signal calamities which every where befell the Jewish nation. *The chief* of our Lord’s *predictions, relative to these events, are contained in Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 19:41-44; 21; 23:27-30:* and we may with confidence appeal to the facts which verify them as conclusive and incontrovertible proofs of the divinity of his mission.

"the Messiah will be mortal. He will eventually die and bequeath his kingdom to his son or his successor"
Will that successor be as good a leader as the Messiah?

"There are numerous Jewish families today that can trace their ancestry directly back to King David"
Do you agree with me that Yeshua was a descendant of King David?

"Tradition states that he will be a direct descendant of King David, son of Jesse, as it its written, 'A shoot will come forth from the stock of Jesse, and a branch will grow from his roots' (Isaiah 11:1)"

"the Moshiach is a Jewish concept, Biblical, he is a mortal man who Gd uses as an instrument of His Will just as He used Moses and as Isaiah prophesied he comes at the End of Days"
Yeshua the Meshikha was a mortal man, who came at the end of an Era. Jerusalem's utter destruction put an emphatic period on the end of that bygone era. Yeshua the Meshikha rose from the dead, so he's no ordinary mortal man.
"YOU HAVE MADE YOU DEITY IN THE IMAGE OF MAN, THAT IS PURE PAGAN IDOLATRY"
Do you agree with me that Jacob (of Abraham Isaac and Jacob fame) wrestled with God?

Isaiah 11:1-2 (HCSB)
1 Then a shoot [Hebrew: ntzr] will grow from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him—
a Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
a Spirit of counsel and strength,
a Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

interlinear PDF of Isaiah 11:1 has ‘ntzr’/ scion
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../isa11.pdf
Yeshayah 11:1 (Orthodox Jewish Bible)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...on=KJV;OJB
And there shall come forth a Khoter (Branch) out of the Geza (Stem, Stump, Stock) of Yishai,
and a Netzer [Branch [see Tzemach, Moshiach Jer 23:5; 33:15; Zech 3:8; 6:12, Ezra 3:8 which give as Moshiach’s Namesake Yehoshua/Yeshua; compare Mt.2:23 OJBC] shall bear fruit of his roots:

Mt 2:23 (based on Younan plus looking at Khabouris), http://dukhrana.com
And he came (and) dwelled in the medintha [city] that is called N-tz-r-th [Natzrath],
so that might be fulfilled the thing which was spoken b'nabia [by the prophet] that,
"He will be called d’n-tz-r-i-a [of natzria]."

=============================================
Daniel made a prophecy unusual in that it had a time limit. Was Daniel a false prophet?
Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in A.D. 70. What's the identity of the Messiah mentioned below? And when was he slain? When did "the forgiveness of the iniquity" occur? Re: "to bring in everlasting righteousness," when did that occur?

Daniel 9 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation), http://superbook.org/LAMSA/DAN/dan9.htm
24 *Seventy times seven weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city,* to finish the transgressions and to make an end of sins and *for the forgiveness of the iniquity* *and to bring in everlasting righteousness* and to fulfill the vision of the prophets *and to give the most holy to Messiah.*
25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to *the coming of the Messiah* the king shall be seven times seven weeks, and sixty-two times seven weeks;
the people shall return and build Jerusalem, its streets, and its broad ways at the end of the appointed times.
26 *After sixty-two times seven weeks, Messiah shall be slain,* and the city shall be without a ruler; and *the holy city shall be destroyed* together with the coming king; and *the end thereof shall be a mass exile,* and at the end of the war, desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for seven weeks and half of seven weeks, then *he shall cause the sacrifice and gift offerings to cease,* and upon the horns of the altar the abomination of desolation;
and the desolation shall continue until the end of the appointed time; the city shall remain desolate.

William Struse, _Daniel's 70 Weeks: The Keystone of Bible Prophecy_, location 2244
https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-70-Weeks-...997960906/
Davidson and Aldersmith’s theory, which I fully understood only decades later, was based in part upon the Persian chronology of Sir Isaac Newton and Josephus and their explanations of failed first-century Jewish messianic expectations. In short, Davidson and Aldersmith showed that Newton discovered that nearly 240 years of missing Jewish Rabbinic chronology were directly related to the failed Jewish messianic expectations of the Second Temple era and a divine command to restore and build Jerusalem. Davidson and Aldersmith, upon calculating each of the failed messianic attempts, realized that amongst all the different time elements used by the early Jewish messianic expectants, a biblical lunar cycle of 14 was missing. They had tried solar years, lunar years, and 6-, 9-, and 16-cycle lunar “years,” but the one number ignored just happened to show that a Jewish man named Yeshua fit the prophecy of 70 sevens perfectly.

Daniel 9 (Brenton Septuagint Translation), https://biblehub.com/sep/daniel/9.htm
24 *Seventy weeks have been determined* upon thy people, and *upon the holy city,* *for sin to be ended,* and to seal up transgressions, *and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities,* and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, *and to anoint the Most Holy.*
25 And thou shalt know and understand, that *from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks;* and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.
26 And *after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed,* and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and *to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.*
27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and *in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away:* and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.

In prophecies, 1 prophetic day = 1 year. Hence, 1 prophetic week = 7 years. Reference:
Leviticus 25 (Brenton Septuagint Translation), https://biblehub.com/sep/leviticus/25.htm
8 And thou shalt reckon to thyself seven sabbaths of years, seven times seven years; and they *shall be to thee seven weeks of years, nine and forty years.*
Numbers 14:34 (Brenton Septuagint Translation), https://biblehub.com/sep/numbers/14.htm
According to the number of the days during which ye spied the land, *forty days, a day for a year, ye shall bear your sins forty years,* and ye shall know my fierce anger.
Ezekiel 4 (Brenton Septuagint Translation), https://biblehub.com/sep/ezekiel/4.htm
5 For I have appointed thee their iniquities for a number of days, for a hundred and ninety days: so thou shalt bear the iniquities of the house of Israel. 6 And thou shalt accomplish this, and then shalt lie on thy right side, and shalt bear the iniquities of the house of Juda forty days: *I have appointed thee a day for a year.*

One adherent of Judaism realized that Rashi had correctly identified the right time period, but misidentified the name of the Messiah that was killed. That individual ended up following Yeshua the Meshikha.

Rashi, on Daniel 9
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo...rashi=true
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation. כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽוֹת:
*And after:* those weeks.
*the anointed one will be cut off:* Agrippa, the king of Judea, who was ruling at the time of the destruction, will be slain.
*and he will be no more:* Heb. וְאֵין לוֹ, and he will not have. The meaning is that he will not be.
*the anointed one:* Heb. מָשִׁיחַ. This is purely an expression of a prince and a dignitary.
*and the city and the Sanctuary:* lit. and the city and the Holy.
*and the people of the coming monarch will destroy:* [The monarch who will come] upon them. That is Titus and his armies.
*and his end will come about by inundation:* And his end will be damnation and destruction, for He will inundate the power of his kingdom through the Messiah, and until the end of the wars of Gog the city will exist.
*cut off into desolation:* a destruction of desolation.

from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Agrippa
Herod Agrippa, also known as Herod or Agrippa I (Hebrew: אגריפס; 11 BC – 44 AD), was a King of Judea from 41 to 44 AD. He was the last ruler with the royal title reigning over Judea and the father of Herod Agrippa II, the last King from the Herodian dynasty. The grandson of Herod the Great and son of Aristobulus IV and Berenice,[1] He is the king named Herod in the Acts of the Apostles 12:1 (Acts 12:1)....

[DavidFord]

"the Moshiach ... is NOT the Son of Gd, he is NOT Gd in the flesh"
Does Daniel 7:13-14 refer to "the Moshiach"?
Do you agree with me that Yeshua was crucified because certain people thought that Yeshua claimed to be God, and were very upset about what they thought he'd claimed?

Daniel 7
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV
13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And *behold, One like the Son of Man,*
*Coming with the clouds of heaven!*
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 *Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,*
*That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.*
*His dominion is an everlasting dominion,*
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

Matthew 26 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-engli...hew/26.htm
63 But Yeshua was silent, and The High Priest answered and said to him, "I adjure you by THE LIVING GOD that you tell us if you are The Messiah, The Son of God." 64 Yeshua said to him, "You have said; but I say to you that from this hour, *you will see The Son of Man who sits at the right hand of power and comes on the clouds of Heaven."*
65 Then the High Priest ripped his garment, and said, "Behold, he has blasphemed. Why now do we need witnesses? Behold now, you have heard his blasphemy. 66 "What do you think?" They answered, and they said, "He deserves death."

[DavidFord]

"Why would the Hebrews speak Aramaic and not Hebrew?" IIRC, an answer is in
George M. Lamsa's Intro to his translation of the Peshitta Tanakh and Peshitta NT
https://amallulla.org/lamsa/

[DavidFord]

"you have made your deity in the Image of Man"
As far as you know, has God ever taken on the appearance of a man? With who or what did Jacob wrestle?
John 1 (NKJV) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. .... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

"THE ONE GD OF THE BIBLE REVEALED LONG AGO.... NO PAGAN HUMAN SACRIFICE NEEDED" Do you think the Old Testament animal sacrifices were really necessary?
Leviticus 17 (JPS Tanakh 1917), https://biblehub.com/jps/leviticus/17.htm
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

[DavidFord]

Psalm 2:12
The Peshitta Tanakh has "kiss the son"-- how do you explain that? Do you agree with Robert Alter that the usual sense of "nashqu" is "to kiss"?

Psalm 2:12 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
https://biblehub.com/jps/psalms/2.htm
Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way,
When suddenly His wrath is kindled.
Happy are all they that take refuge in Him.

Psalm 2 (Brenton Septuagint Translation)
https://biblehub.com/sep/psalms/2.htm
1 Wherefore did the heathen rage, and the nations imagine vain things?
2 The kings of the earth stood up, and the *rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord, and against his Christ;*
3 saying, Let us break through *their bonds,* and cast away *their yoke* from us.
4 He that dwells in the heavens shall laugh them to scorn, and the Lord shall mock them.
5 Then shall he speak to them in his anger, and trouble them in his fury.
6 But *I have been made king by him on Sion his holy mountain,*
7 declaring the ordinance of the Lord: *the Lord said to me, Thou art my Son, to-day have I begotten thee.*
8 Ask of me, and *I will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,* and the ends of the earth for thy possession.
9 *Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron;* thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter's vessel.
10 Now therefore understand, ye kings: be instructed, all ye that judge the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice in him with trembling.
12 Accept correction, lest at any time the Lord be angry, and ye should perish from the righteous way: whensoever his wrath shall be suddenly kindled, blessed are all they that trust in him.

Psalm 2 (Peshitta Tanakh, Lamsa translation)
http://superbook.org/LAMSA/PS/ps2.htm
1 WHY do the Gentiles rage and the peoples imagine vain things?
2 The kings of the earth and the *rulers have conspired and have taken counsel together against the LORD and against his anointed,* saying,
3 Let us break *their bands* asunder, and let us cast away *their yoke* from us.
4 He that dwells in heaven shall laugh, and the LORD shall mock at them.
5 Then shall he speak to them in his anger, and terrify them in his wrath and say,
6 I have appointed my king over Zion, my holy mountain,
7 To declare my promise;
*the LORD has said to me, You are my Son;
this day have I begotten you.*
8 Ask of me, and *I shall give you the heathen for your inheritance* and the uttermost parts of the earth for your dominion.
9 *You shall shepherd them with a rod of iron;*
you shall break them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
10 Be wise now, therefore, O kings;
be instructed, O judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with reverence, and uphold him with trembling.
12 *Kiss the Son, lest he be angry,* and you perish from his way while his wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

DSS: fragments stop with verse 8-- lost to the sands of time.

"nashqu": usual sense: to kiss. Can also mean: to bear/wield arms.
"bar": son? wheat?
See
https://books.google.com/books?id=2iYEhR...ed&f=false

[DavidFord]

"Scripture says the Davidic line goes through Solomon" The prophet Yeshua the Meshikha was descended from King David on his mother's side (see Mt 1: "....Dawid the malka [king]. Dawid fathered Shlemon by the wife of Awrea. Shlemon fathered Rkhebam....) and on his dad's side (see Lk 3: "the son of Nathan, the son of Dawid, the son of Aishi...."). Greek translators of the original Aramaic botched translating a word in Mt 1; in reality, Mary had a father-figure named Joseph, in addition to her husband Joseph.

Matthew 1, based on Paul Younan's translation of the original Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com
1. The kethaba [book] of the genealogy of Yeshua [Life/ Salvation] the Meshikha [Anointed One, i.e. Messiah] the Son of Dawid, the son of Awraham:
2. Awraham fathered Aeskhaq.
Aeskhaq fathered Yaqub.
Yaqub fathered Yehuda and his brothers.
3. Yehuda fathered Pares and Zarakh by Thamar.
Pares fathered Khisron.
4. Kishron fathered Aram.
Aram fathered Amenadab.
Amenadab fathered Nikhshon.
5. Nikhshon fathered Salmon.
Salmon fathered Baz by Rakhab.
Baz fathered Awbed by Rawth.
Awbed fathered Aeshe.
6. *Aeshe fathered Dawid the malka [king].*
Dawid fathered Shlemon by the wife of Awrea.
7. Shlemon fathered Rkhebam.
Rkhebam fathered Abea.
Abea fathered Asa.
8. Asa fathered Yahoshapat.
Yahoshapat fathered Yoram.
Yoram fathered Awazea.
9. Awazea fathered Yotham.
Yotham fathered Akhaz.
Akahaz fathered Khizaqea.
10. Khizaqea fathered Mnashe.
Manashe fathered Amon.
Amon fathered Yoshea.

11. Yoshea fathered Yokhanea and his brothers in the captivity of Babel.

12. Now, and after the captivity of Babel, Yokhanea fathered Shilathel.
Shilathel fathered Zerubabel.
13. Zerubabel fathered Awiud.
Awiud fathered Eleakem.
Eleakem fathered Azor.
14. Azor fathered Zadoq.
Zadoq fathered Akhen.
Akhen fathered Eleud.
15. Eleud fathered Eleazer. Eleazer fathered
Matan. Matan fathered
Yaqub. 16. Yaqub fathered
Yosip, the gowra [protective-male] of
Maryam, from whom was born
Yeshua, who is called the Meshikha.
[Pronounced "gowra," GBRA literally means 'protective male.' It is unclear whether the text refers to Maryam's father or to her husband. --PY. PY had 'kinsman.' Roth used 'guardian.' Mt says it is 14 + 14 + 14 generations in the next paragraph, verse 17. The Josip in the paragraph starting with verse 18 is a different Josip. Interestingly, the next paragraph, paragraph 18, opens with a thought-switcher. Observes Lataster about thought-switchers,
"Another Aramaic word which causes problems for translators is Nyd which really has no equivalent in English, but it is more of a 'thought-switcher' - some English words come close to translating it - like 'And, For, But, Now, However'." - Lataster, 115. See also Younan's article "Mistranslating the Genealogies of Yeshua" in Lataster.]

17. Therefore, all the generations from Awraham until Dawid (were) fourteen generations,
and from Dawid until the captivity of Babel (were) fourteen generations,
and from the captivity of Babel until the Meshikha (were) fourteen generations.

Luke 3
23. And Yeshua was about thirty years old and he was thought to be the son of Yosip, the son of Heli, 24. the son of Mattath the son of Lewi, the son of Malki, the son of Yani, the son of Yosip, 25. the son of Matta, the son of Amos, the son of Nakhum, the son of Khasli, the son of Nagi, the son of Maath, the son of Matath, the son of Shamei, the son of Yosip, the son of Yehuda, 27. the son of Yukhanan, the son of Rasa, the son of Zerubabel, the son of Shilathiel, the son of Neri, 28. the son of Malki, the son of Addi, the son of Qusam, the son of Almodad, the son of Ayir, 29. the son of Yoseh, the son of Eliazar, the son of Yoram, the son of Matitha, the son of Lewi, 30. the son of Shimon, the son of Yehuda, the son of Yosip, the son of Yonam, the son of Eliakim, 31. the son of Malia, the son of Manni, the son of Mattha, the son of Nathan, *the son of Dawid,* 32. the son of Aishi, the son of Obed, the son of Baz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nikhshon, 33. the son of Aminadab, the son of Aram, the son of Khisron, the son of Pares, the son of Yehuda, 34. the son of Yaqub, the son of Iskhaq, the son of Awraham, the son of Terakh, the son of Nakhor, 35. the son of Sarug, the son of Araw, the son of Palag, the son of Awar, the son of Shalakh, 36. the son of Qaynan, the son of Arpakshar, the son of Shem, the son of Nukh, the son of Lamakh, 37. the son of Mathushlakh, the son of Knokh, the son of Yared, the son of Mahlalaiel, the son of Qaynan, 38. the son of Anosh, the son of Sheth, the son of Adam, who (was) from Allaha.

Lataster PDF:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pd...ngreek.pdf

---

The Yehudians suffered terribly, at the hands of fellow Yehudians and at the hands of Romans, after they stood against the God-sent Yeshua Meshikha.
George Peter Holford's _The Destruction of Jerusalem_ (1805, 1814, 1858) http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/18...proof.html
hat tip: https://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Jerus...967831725/
from PDF http://vladspost.com/pdf/Jews/Destructio...usalem.pdf
To the Jew we would say—Suspend, if it be practicable, the prejudices which you inherit from your forefathers, whilst you ponder, for one hour, the important and interesting subject of
these pages—to you peculiarly interesting and important. Is it possible that you can attentively reflect upon the destruction of “the beloved city,” the dispersion of your nation into all countries—the terrible calamities which have every where pursued them, for nearly 1800 years, even unto this day—and not trace therein the condign and predicted punishment of their original rejection, and continued contempt of that very Messiah whose character your own scriptures so faithfully pourtray (Isaiah 53:3) and whose advent, precisely at the time of his actual appearance, they as clearly foretold? (Dan. 9:26, 27). But your ancestors did not only reject, they also slew their Saviour. “His blood,” said they, when calling upon Pilate to crucify him, “his blood be on us and upon our children.” “A most fatal imprecation, and most dreadfully fulfilled upon them at the siege of Jerusalem, when the vengeance of heaven overtook them with a fury unexampled in the history of the world; when they were exposed at once to the horrors of famine, of sedition, of assassination, and the sword of the Romans.”14

Observe, too, the striking correspondence which marked their crimes in their punishment: “They put Jesus to death when the nation was assembled to celebrate the passover; and when the nation was assembled for the same purpose, Titus shut them up within the walls of Jerusalem.15 The rejection of the Messiah was their crime, and the following of false Messiahs to their destruction was their punishment.16 They bought Jesus as a slave; and they themselves were afterwards sold and bought as slaves at the lowest prices17: and they preferred a robber and a murderer to Jesus, whom they crucified between two thieves; and they themselves were afterwards infested with bands of thieves and robbers18: they put Jesus to death, lest the Romans should come and take away their place and nation: and the Romans did come and take away their place and nation,19 and what is still more striking, and still more strongly marks the judgment of God upon them, they were punished with that very kind of death which they were so eager to inflict on the Saviour of mankind, the death of the cross; and that in such prodigious numbers, that Josephus assures us, there wanted wood for crosses, and room to place them in.20

Now, according to your own scriptures, that fatal catastrophe which involved your ancestors in all these miseries, was not to take place until after the coming and crucifixion of their Messiah: for thus spake the prophet Daniel, prophesying almost five hundred and forty years before the birth of the Messiah: ....

[DavidFord]

'Meshikha' is a transliteration of Aramaic, and appears frequently in the Aramaic NT known as the Peshitta. מָשִׁיחַ = Mashiach = Meshikha = Μεσσίας = Messias = Messiah = Χριστός = Christos = Christ = Anointed.

---

Do you think satan: "wast in Eden the garden of God"? "wast the far-covering cherub"? Would it be accurate to say to satan, you "wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee"?

Ezekiel 28 (JPS Tanakh 1917), https://biblehub.com/jps/ezekiel/28.htm
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying:
2 ‘Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre:
Thus saith the Lord GOD:
Because thy heart is lifted up,
And thou hast said: I am a god,
I sit in the seat of God,
In the heart of the seas;
Yet thou art man, and not God,
Though thou didst set thy heart as the heart of God—
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that they can hide from thee!
4 By thy wisdom and by thy discernment
Thou hast gotten thee riches,
And hast gotten gold and silver
Into thy treasures;
5 In thy great wisdom by thy traffic
Hast thou increased thy riches,
And thy heart is lifted up because of thy riches—
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD:
Because thou hast set thy heart
As the heart of God;
7 Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon thee,
The terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom,
And they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit;
And thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain,
In the heart of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee:
I am God?
But thou art man, and not God,
In the hand of them that defile thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised
By the hand of strangers;
For I have spoken, saith the Lord GOD.’

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying:
12 ‘Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say unto him: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Thou seal most accurate, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty, 13 thou wast in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the carnelian, the topaz, and the emerald, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the carbuncle, and the smaragd, and gold; the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets was in thee, in the day that thou wast created they were prepared. 14 Thou wast the far-covering cherub; and I set thee, so that thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned; therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thy heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness; I have cast thee to the ground, I have laid thee before kings, that they may gaze upon thee. 18 By the multitude of thine iniquities, in the unrighteousness of thy traffic, thou hast profaned thy sanctuaries; therefore have I brought forth a fire from the midst of thee, it hath devoured thee, and I have turned thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the peoples shall be appalled at thee; thou art become a terror, and thou shalt never be any more.’