Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Query in favour of Greek
#17
I'd like to drop this here for reference as this thread was brought to my attention and there has been some Facebook discussion about it. (The following has some edits due to the lack of Unicode support here):

Quote:The N-preformative shows up sporadically in other dialects here and there for various tenses, but few does it ever become the norm, so these examples Paul cites aren't particularly compelling.

With the transition from Old Syriac into Classical Syriac, however, there was a *total and complete* shift for the y- prefix to n- for the 3rd person singular that occured over the course of the 3rd century AD, with y- being completely abandoned for n- altogether (along with some other grammatical and vocabulary changes). To say the Peshitta can't be dated in part by this shift would be like ignoring the Great Vowel Shift in Modern English simply because someone misspeaks or uses archaic pronunciation once or twice in their speech.

Another unusual use of n- can be found In Galilean, there was a half-shift between the )- prefix of the 1st person singular Imperfect to n- (a combination of /)nh )ktwb/ perturbing to /nyktwb/ or /nktwb/).

Quote:Q: Why did the -n- prefix to the 3rd-person Imperfect verb evolve from the original Aramaic -y- (specifically, within the "Syriac" milieu) ???

Quote:The perturbation of y- to n- occurred (in Syriac, JBA, and Mandaic) in a few steps.

1) Initial y- in Syriac developed from yi- to i-, losing its consonantal nature (hence why we see "idha" rather than "yadha" for "hand" or "Isho" for how later Syriac pronounced "Yeshua").

2) The indication of the Imperfect then shifted to the historical l- preformative in Official Aramaic, which was originally used in the verb "to be" exclusively. The historical l- resolved as n- in Syriac (there was a lot of n/l swapping in this clade in other places). It stayed l- in Hatran, and Mandaic and JBA swap back and forth between n- and l- freely.

Outside of these four dialects (Syriac, JBA, Mandaic, and Hatran) it remained y-, and the shifts happened at about the same time (3rd century).

[...]

There was an antiquated (and now long disproven) conjecture that it was adopted to prevent spelling out the Divine Name (/y-/ + /hwh/ "to be" in *old* non-Syriac orthography). If that were the case it wouldn't have happened in Mandaic, which had no such taboo, nor Hatran, which was pagan.

Quote:[Paul actually makes two honest mistakes with his n- examples in Targum Proverbs.]

In 9:8 it reads /nysnwk/, not /nsnyk/ as he claims. This is a different, problematic form. The presence of /nsnyk/ there is a typographical error on the part of whomever prepared the text. It appears as a marginal note in the manuscript from a later scribe trying to make sense of /nysnwk/, which is a very odd reading. However, whoever scraped the text from the CAL didn't take into account the footnoting system.

The same goes for /nrxmk/ as he claims. The reading in the *body* of the text is /rxmk/. The marginal note trying to make sense of it and failing reads /nrxmk/, and once again, whoever scraped the Targum text from the CAL made another error.

Because of this, I must conclude that the Interlinear Targum on Peshitta.org is wholly unreliable as it jumbles all of the marginal notes in with the actual text with no discernment between them.

Targum Proverbs is also a very late text.

And back off into the ether I go. If there are any questions throw them to me on Facebook as I don't check the Peshitta.org forums very often anymore.

Peace,
-Steve
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by judge - 02-24-2015, 06:51 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregglaser - 02-24-2015, 08:58 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregglaser - 02-27-2015, 06:53 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregglaser - 02-28-2015, 03:23 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by aux - 02-28-2015, 04:37 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Burning one - 03-01-2015, 10:52 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-04-2015, 01:26 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-04-2015, 06:36 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-04-2015, 06:42 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-06-2015, 02:34 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregoryfl - 03-06-2015, 10:39 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by aux - 03-07-2015, 07:23 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregoryfl - 03-07-2015, 08:29 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-08-2015, 04:37 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-08-2015, 04:42 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by gregoryfl - 03-08-2015, 09:00 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by SteveCaruso - 03-08-2015, 02:04 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-08-2015, 02:35 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-08-2015, 03:18 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-08-2015, 04:16 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by SteveCaruso - 03-09-2015, 03:27 AM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-09-2015, 12:45 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by SteveCaruso - 03-09-2015, 04:43 PM
Re: Query in favour of Greek - by Paul Younan - 03-09-2015, 05:00 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)