Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Aramaic Matthew or Hebrew Matthew
#1
I have a particular question about the Hebrew Matthew:

But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ?Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.? NKJV Matthew 1:20-21

The last part don't make any sense in English or in Greek, only when you go back into the Hebrew

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus (Yeshua), for He will save (yoshia) His people from their sins."

Is is possible that this passage give us an indication that the Gospel of Matthew was written in Hebrew instead of Aramaic? I don't know much about Aramaic, but make more sense that the Angel was speaking in Hebrew and gave that name to Yeshua and explain his name.

But then you have another passage that it is recorded in the Peshitta and the Greek:

"So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: ?Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,? which is translated, ?God with us.? NKJV Matthew 1:22-23

So in the end of the verse it says "which is translated" that means that it is not a Hebrew text, because they had to explain the meaning of Immanuel.

Is that a contradiction? It look like the text come from 2 different sources Hebrew and Aramaic. Or the main text is in Hebrew and "which is translated" is not there in the Shem Tob, DuTillet, etc or it is Aramaic even the name given to Yeshua don't make sense without the Hebrew.

What are your thoughts?
Reply
#2
The Shem Tov hebrew, is certainly not in authentic form.
It contains 'edits' for Jewish reasons, it was used by Jews in the time of Shem tov in Spain to defend against the spanish inquisition who wanted to force the idea of trinity for instance.
It might contain Greek and Latin edits, but to make a long story short, it is not authentic. None of the 3 copies of Matthew which are in Hebrew.

I do not think that Matthew wrote Matthew using paleo Hebrew , using caraitic square script, but he wrote his gospel using Aramaic Jewish dialect. This was called 'Hebrew' in the first century. Somebody on this forum quoted Josephus, who called his own language Hebrew, but the 'holy language' was the language of the OT. So, to use Josephus style, Matthew was not written in 'the holy language' but in Hebrew, which is Jewish Aramaic.
Reply
#3
Hebrew was almost nothing but a liturgical language during that time too. Most Jews could only converse in Aramaic. This is evidenced by the Targums, which were Aramaic translations of the Old Testament made for the benefit of the common people. Jesus could clearly speak Hebrew though, as Luke 4:16-20 tells us that Jesus read from the Tanakh scroll of Isaiah. At this time, the Targums had not yet been written down.
Reply
#4
Guys,

I understand that the language at that time was Aramaic, but Hebrew was the liturgical language. I am not saying that the Shem Tov is the original Hebrew or anything like that.

In this particular example the angel that is speaking to Joseph is speaking Hebrew, not Aramaic. That let me think that a Hebrew Matthew is a possibility, because even in Aramaic the phrase don't make much sense. We have a lot of examples in the Tanakh when someone is named by their physical characteristics or purposed in life. So this is a very Hebrew idea.

I understand all the point of the Aramaic Primacy but I want to be open to examined the text a little bit closer and see if it fits. The naming of Yeshua don't fit in an Aramaic framework. I don't know if someone had done textual criticism related to the Peshitta and the Greek Gospels.
Reply
#5
carlosmendoza Wrote:The naming of Yeshua don't fit in an Aramaic framework.

Shlama Akhi Carlos,

Hypothetically speaking, if an angel appeared to you in a dream and told you to "name your son Rex, for he will be a king one day", would that conversation necessarily have to occur in Latin ? Would you know enough, as a speaker of English (rooted in Latin), to understand him ?

The names of Mariam and Yosef weren't Aramaic, either. Yet that is surely what they spoke as an everyday language.

Every Assyrian couple who names their child "Sargon" knows it's from the ancient Akkadian "Sharrukin" (true prince), even though we don't speak Akkadian anymore.

The angel could have spoken Aramaic, Latin, Chinese, or even Greek to Mary, and she still should have understood what "Yeshua" meant (it's a very common name, even to today). And even if she didn't understand, he went on to explain it to her .... did he not ?

+Shamasha
Reply
#6
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Hebrew was almost nothing but a liturgical language during that time too. Most Jews could only converse in Aramaic. This is evidenced by the Targums, which were Aramaic translations of the Old Testament made for the benefit of the common people. Jesus could clearly speak Hebrew though, as Luke 4:16-20 tells us that Jesus read from the Tanakh scroll of Isaiah. At this time, the Targums had not yet been written down.


Indeed
John 7:15 for instance:
(Murdock) And the Jihudoyee wondered and said, How knoweth this man the scripture, when he hath not learned ?

This could be translated as 'cilinder' as well. THey did not say that Yeshu should not read, but the cilinder, obviously, this must have been a Hebrew Scroll.

Again in Acts 4:13
They understood that they (apostles) were unknown with the cilinder.

Jewish boys could read, normally.
Reply
#7
Andrew's name is Andreos (Is this the correct transliteration?) in Aramaic, which is clearly of Greek origin. This certainly does not necessitate that Andrew be of Greek descent. The Messiah could still have been called "Yeshua" in his lifetime and this won't destroy the idea that He spoke Aramaic and that the Gospels were originally written in Aramaic also.
Reply
#8
Paul Younan Wrote:
carlosmendoza Wrote:The naming of Yeshua don't fit in an Aramaic framework.

Shlama Akhi Carlos,

Hypothetically speaking, if an angel appeared to you in a dream and told you to "name your son Rex, for he will be a king one day", would that conversation necessarily have to occur in Latin ? Would you know enough, as a speaker of English (rooted in Latin), to understand him ?

Paul, lets seek in the Hebrew Bible some examples about what I am talking about:

In Genesis 30:8

Then Rachel said, ?With great wrestlings I have wrestled with my sister, and indeed I have prevailed.? So she called his name Naphtali.

In Genesis 41:51


Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh ?For God has made me forget all my toil and all my father?s house.?

In Genesis 41:52
And the name of the second he called Ephraim ?For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.?

In the Hebrew Bible we see that each time someone is named, have a direct connection with it meaning. I can give you hundreds of examples like that. We see the same structure in Matthew than in other parts of the Bible. If the angel was talking in Aramaic, English or any other language the word play would be totally lost. We see that the names in the Hebrew Bible are related to a root word in those examples.

By the way you forum don't let me write on Hebrew, so I cannot make my point really clear.
Reply
#9
Shlama Carlos

I totally understood your point in the first post, I don't need to see the Hebrew behind your examples as you're not telling me something I didn't already know.

I don't think you understood my point. The angel didn't need to speak in Hebrew in order for Miriam to understand what the name Joshua means. The name was popular for centuries before Miriam was born. Everyone knew what it meant in the old Hebrew language. There was no explanation necessary. Our Lord wasn't the first man to be named Joshua.

In fact, an argument can be made that the angel spoke to Miriam in Aramaic, since he went on to explain the choice of the name to her.

+Shamasha
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)