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Looking for help
#1
I have been studying Hebrew in block and pictograph form on my own. I am currently searching for a Hebrew text of the TANAK translated from the Aramaic Peshitta. I have considered trying to learn Aramaic, but it appears to be more difficult than Hebrew. I have heard that the Peshitta predates the Masoretic text, but I can not read Aramaic and I do not want an English translation of the Peshitta. I want a Hebrew translation of the Aramaic Peshitta. Learning Hebrew has truly opened the SCRIPTURES up in ways I never thought possible, but I want a purer text to work with. To many people have added and taken away from the SCRIPTURES, scribes and translators through the ages are guilty. Am I making sense? Can anyone help me in my search? If not, How can I learn Aramaic?
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#2
Toma Marqos Wrote:I have been studying Hebrew in block and pictograph form on my own. I am currently searching for a Hebrew text of the TANAK translated from the Aramaic Peshitta. I have considered trying to learn Aramaic, but it appears to be more difficult than Hebrew. I have heard that the Peshitta predates the Masoretic text, but I can not read Aramaic and I do not want an English translation of the Peshitta. I want a Hebrew translation of the Aramaic Peshitta. Learning Hebrew has truly opened the SCRIPTURES up in ways I never thought possible, but I want a purer text to work with. To many people have added and taken away from the SCRIPTURES, scribes and translators through the ages are guilty. Am I making sense? Can anyone help me in my search? If not, How can I learn Aramaic?


Shlama Toma,


i came to the Peshitta with a grounding in Hebrew (and some scant Aramaic from the OT), and i can say that i found it was extremely easy to pick up the Aramaic of the Peshitta. i can't speak for how easy it may be for you since we all learn differently, but i would highly, highly, highly encourage you to take the time to start learning what you need, because if you think you've been blessed by learning Hebrew and reading the Word in the original language, just wait until you read Messiah's own words in the original utterances! the entire writing of the NT will come alive like never before, i assure you!

there are some great helps online, or you can purchase some grammar books that will aide in learning. i found that there really is not that much different to learn about Aramaic if you have a good foundation in Hebrew already. you might be surprised at what you find, if you start looking into it.

for me personally, i first learned the Estrangela script - it is a beautifully-flowing Aramaic script that is somewhat similar to Hebrew Ashuri script, such that you will easily be able to memorize the letter forms based off their Hebrew counterparts you already know, but not have to worry about every "confusing" in your mind when you are reading Hebrew and when you are reading Aramaic, which could possibly be a factor if you learn Aramaic in Ashuri script. there are other scripts, of course, that are more distinctly different than the Ashuri script is from Estrangela, so you might want to check them out, as well.

i encourage you to seek the very words of your Savior in His tongue!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#3
Personally, to learn Aramaic I began with Herb Jahn's interlinear (great for beginners because the Aramaic root word transliterations are presented in English text immediately below the English translation - very convenient and not intimidating). Once I gained a nice familiarity and confidence with these root words (over about 6 months), I learned the Estrangelo script in about a day (just write the aleph bet over and over) and then began reading the Magiera transliterations that come with her Word Concordance ? her study tools are awesome!

So for beginners wishing to learn the Aramaic Peshitta, I highly recommend this method:
  • 1) Read the English transliterations of Herb Jahn (and understand you are reading root words, not actual text). This is a nice way to learn Aramaic because you?re reading the bible for your studies and therefore striving to abide in the word!
    2) Learn Estrangelo script and read Magiera's transliterations while consulting her Concordance. And of course, if you're here at Peshitta.org, click on "Interlinear NT" over there on the left toolbar, and enjoy the journey!
    3) Here is a useful grammar to assist you in the above: http://www.introlessonsinaramaic.com
    4) Using this method you will be able to read the ancient scrolls for yourself. Once you're ready, start here: http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris

I understand your concerns about textual edits, but take solace in the great integrity of the Peshitta and letter counting system of the Aramaic scribes. Granted, it often feels unclear just how successful ?the false pen of scribes? (see e.g., Jeremiah 8:8) may have been. But I think when we search the gospel for truth and simultaneously strive to love our fellow man (e.g., help the needy) while we study, we?re each rewarded with our own unique journey (what more could you ask for really), often learning from errors (stumbling blocks) that we would not have appreciated if we had not been tested with other perspectives and even inaccuracy. Every endeavor on earth requires the navigation of stumbling blocks, and some of man?s greatest scientific achievements have come from the slow process of discovering entire fields of study and invention, only to have them later improved and integrated into other fields and inventions. The latter is not as meaningful without the former, so know that your journey studying the Peshitta even on Day 1 is important!

Here's one of my favorite examples, even after following Yahshua throughout his ministry, Peter continued to falsely believe the Messiah would never die on earth. Matthew 16:22. Peter's misunderstanding was part of his journey, and it helps emphasize just how guarded the Word is!

I think if the Father wants to give the exact words of the gospel to a man, then that man will receive the Word when his season comes because he is ready -- remember Yahshua in Matthew 19:11 on a topic regarding marriage, ?Not every man is fit for this word except he to whom it is given.? And here is Proverbs 25:2, ?The honor of Elohim is to hide a word; and the honor of sovereigns to probe a word.?
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#4
gregglaser Wrote:I think if the Father wants to give the exact words of the gospel to a man, then that man will receive the Word when his season comes because he is ready -- remember Yahshua in Matthew 19:11 on a topic regarding marriage, ?Not every man is fit for this word except he to whom it is given.? And here is Proverbs 25:2, ?The honor of Elohim is to hide a word; and the honor of sovereigns to probe a word.?

Wise words!
The Gospel, in any language, is enough to inspire any one. Besides, the gospel contains redundancy. If you take the worst text, say, the Alexandrian, the gospel Message is clear. Redundancy is a fact in DNA genetic code and also in, for instance, data transfers in the ICT world.
SO, if an error creeps in into data, the redundancy will help to correct it
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#5
I just found this online, from 2002.


George Kiraz

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tc-list/message/4543">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tc-list/message/4543</a><!-- m -->

I came across the following work at amazon.com (<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com">www.amazon.com</a><!-- w -->):
Author: Herb Jahn
Title: The Aramaic New Covenant
Description: "This rendering of the New Testament by Herb Jahn claims to
be the only literal translation/transliteration made from the original
Aramaic, the variant of the Hebrew language spoken by Jesus and His disciples."
ISBN: 0963195166

Does anyone know of this work? Would it be a translation of the Syriac Peshitta?


James Trimm

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tc-list/message/4545">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tc-list/message/4545</a><!-- m -->

George,

Yes I know all about it. Originally Mr. Jahn hired me to do the
translation. We signed the contracts and all went well for about three
months. Three months into the nine month project Jahn violated our
contract and quit paying me (although I had kept my end of the contract).
It seems that Jahn had obtained the Way Intl. Interlinear edition and
decided he could use that to produce his version. Jahn himself does not
know a word of Aramaic.

Jahn's previous project, the exoGesis study bible provides his translation from the Heb. O.T. and Greek N.T.. Jahn does not know Hebrwew or Greek but looked up EVERY word in a Strong's and made sure that each word was always translated with the same english word (regardless of context). Jahn had also heard that Hebrew has no tenses so he put the ENTIRE OT portion in the present tense.

There is absolutely no scholarship behind Jahn's material. And you
(Kiraz) are WAY out of his league.

Hope this helps.

Shalom,
Schmuel
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#6
Quote:I began with Herb Jahn's interlinear (great for beginners because the Aramaic root word transliterations are presented in English text immediately below the English translation

Gregg, is this interlinear still available somewhere? I have never seen it before.
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#7
Hi Chuck,

Thanks for your question. Yes, Jahn relied upon the Peshitta/Peshitto for his translisteration work. Here is Matthew, John, and Revelation.

I do have some important caveats in regards to that man you quoted above who was pointing the finger at Jahn. I don't know who he is but perhaps it may help retract the finger to know that Jahn was simply making a study tool for English speakers who are new to Aramaic. Consider the faith and diligence it would take to look up every single bible word and its synonym in a concordance and write it all out line-by-line while also citing the part of speech (i.e., verb, adjective, noun). After a man completes such a task (which would take years), I don't think this statement from the finger-pointer could possibly be true, "Jahn himself does not know a word of Aramaic." So having found one untrue statement that feels like it was made with bitterness, I wonder what else is untrue in the finger-pointer's online comments.

I can only offer my experience that Jahn's interlinear helped me learn Aramaic, because it's like reading the bible through root words, which is actually a pretty neat study tool not offered elsewhere. Also, I don't recall seeing any gnarly translations in Jahn's work - the man was a conservative Christian and definitely relying on standard doctrines for his English translations. Another false thing in the finger-pointer's comment above is that Jahn only translated in the present sense. Read any chapter for yourself in the links I provided and you'll see the finger pointer's claim is false. Lastly, as an attorney with a contracts practice I've learned over the years to take with a grain of salt a bitter man's claim that his contract was breached if he is making false statements while describing his claim. Also, where's the second witness?

I'm glad you pointed out that Amazon description - because that too would be false, and I would venture it was not written by Jahn himself (if i'm not mistaken Jahn is deceased). Again, Jahn's work is simply a specific-type of contribution to the larger body of Aramaic bible study tools. It may not be right for everyone (especially advanced Aramaic speakers), but my experience is that it helped me a lot as a beginner. To help confirm that Jahn knew he what he was making, here is what Jahn wrote on the intro to his interlinear, "Now, for the very first time, you have a Literal Translation & Transliteration of the New Covenant on one line, followed by the Aramaic root, part of speech and its synonyms on the following lines in the Aramaic sequence." Having searched many other Aramaic study tools, I found his statement was correct at the time he wrote it, and I think it's still correct today.

Hope this response has been helpful. Thanks again for your question.

Greg
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#8
distazo Wrote:Wise words!
The Gospel, in any language, is enough to inspire any one. Besides, the gospel contains redundancy. If you take the worst text, say, the Alexandrian, the gospel Message is clear. Redundancy is a fact in DNA genetic code and also in, for instance, data transfers in the ICT world.
SO, if an error creeps in into data, the redundancy will help to correct it

Right back atcha, wise words about the bible being protected through repetition. I suppose that may have been one of the reasons the Father did not provide exclamation marks at the time! DNA is a great example you higlighted too - even the blank spaces are important to overall health and vitality, as we know intutively listening to the space between notes in a Beethoven symphony. They are, indeed, essential.

Matthew 19:12, ?For there are believers who were born so from the womb of their mother, and there are believers who by sons of men became believers, and there are believers who worked their souls believers because of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to understand should understand.?

Logically, I think this means that different people come to know the kingdom of heaven through different means, and that?s a positive thing. ?Born so from the womb of their mother? refers to those blessed children who inherently trust in the kingdom of heaven because they are simply trusting people (like how young children inherently believe their parents). The phrase ?by sons of men became believers? refers to those people who trust in the kingdom of heaven because they willingly receive testimony about the kingdom of heaven from faithful/honest witnesses, evangelists, scholars, missionaries, scientists, humanitarians, etc. And the last example, ?worked their souls believers? refers to those who receive the gift of intrinsically trusting in the Father through spiritual and intellectual mediation, prayer, and thought.

Like the lampstands in Revelation, our experiences are unique.
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#9
Hi Gregg, I can't take sides on the matter, as I don't know the whole story there. It might be something worth looking into, or maybe not. But I say, if the work our Brother Herb Jahn has done has helped you in a positive way to learn more about the Aramaic Language and the Scriptures, then that's great!

I have his literal translation here, but, it's all from the Western revision of the original Eastern Aramaic Scriptures, which is a bummer, but, this edition has no interlinear text, like your PDF shows, just his English renderings in sentance form, which are all extreeeemly literal. But I like it, if just for that fact.

Do you know how I can get a copy of the CD that has his work you showed there in PDF? I would love to have a copy, myself.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#10
Yeah that's cool man, I was thinking the same thing -- I'm very pleased to report that Jahn's work was a great blessing to me personally. As an english speaker it was the gentle slope I needed to begin studying aramaic. And the slope is unique, there's nothing quite like reading Aramaic root words in sequence - it helped train my mind to see possibilities and probabilities erected upon solid word foundations. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
Here's the link you requested: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.virtueinknowledge.com/exegeses-bible.html">http://www.virtueinknowledge.com/exegeses-bible.html</a><!-- m -->
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#11
I don't see the CDROM/PDF of it there, so I sent them a message asking about it.

Thanks Gregg.
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#12
Hi Toma,
You may consider reading ceriani veteris testamentum since it is in Aramaic and written in about 6 century ce.
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