Name hope vs. islands law

[IPOstapyuk]

For those who think that Peshitta contradictory verses to Masoretic OT are paraphrasing.
I believe it is attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable.
For those who assert that Septuagint is copy of Greek NT by Origen to make it fit good.
I believe that both are just theories and wonder why they still live being just speculations.

Among many examples, lets look at these:

Matthew 12:21 - And in his name shall the gentiles hope.
It agrees with Peshitta, Peshitto, Greek, Latin.
Isaiah 42:4. Masoretic Text: He will not grow faint and not be crushed until he has set judgment in the earth, and for his law the islands shall wait.
I discovered it is in Ceriani_Veteris Testamentum (7a1) too.
Septuagint: He will shine forth and not be broken until he has set judgment upon the earth, and upon his name nations will hope.

If some believe that Septuagint was copied from Greek NT (which is possible)
then they have right to think that Peshitta was copied from Greek NT too.

One of them has to be taken as truth since it is a serious difference
and looks like a representation of the two antagonist ideologies.

[konway87]

We know that there are huge amounts of script tamperings in Greek NT manuscripts. For Example, Adulteress story in John 7:53-8:11. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are script tamperings in Septuagint.

[IPOstapyuk]

Logical yes.

[konway87]

I thought I should point out another thing. Unlike Septuagint, the latter part of chapter 13 and Chapter 14 is not in Aramaic Tobit. So it is believed to be an addition by Greek scribes in Septuagint. I am going to post more infos about this in "Tobit" thread at Old Testament forum.

[IPOstapyuk]

Lamsa:
Acts 15:17 - So that the men who remain may seek after the LORD, and also all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called; so said the LORD who does all these things.

Septuagint:
Amos. 9:12 - that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon
whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, saith the Lord who does
all these things."


The KJV English translation of the Hebrew Masoretic text for Amos 9:
11-12 says "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that
is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his
ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may
possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called
by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this."

[konway87]

That is a great information, Ivan. Thanks for pointing it out. Do you have more?

[IPOstapyuk]

konway87,
can you check what Aramaic OT says on this verse since you are an expert of it?

[IPOstapyuk]

Can someone explain if God was still working in the 7th day?

Septuagint: Gen. 2:2 - And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, and he ceased on the seventh day from all his works which he made.

Masoretic text: Gen. 2:2- And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Aramaic OT :

[konway87]

hello Ivan,
Here is Peshitta Tanakh translation on Genesis 2:2. I will use Lamsa so that you can also have access.

Genesis 2:2 (George Lamsa?s translation of Peshitta Tanakh) ? ?And on the sixth day God, finished his works which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his works which he had made.?

In Hebrew Masoretic Text, it says "seventh day" (in Genesis 2:2), is in contradiction to Exodus 20:11 (in Hebrew Masoretic Text) where it says "six days."

But Peshitta Tanakh has no such contradiction.

[IPOstapyuk]

Looks like Masoretic text not only fights other versions but also fights itself.
Hmm...interesting.

[konway87]

I thought I should share an error in Hebrew Masoretic Text.

Psalms 104:3 (1917 JPS Tanakh translation of Hebrew Masoretic Text) - "Who layest the beams of Thine upper chambers in the waters, Who makest the clouds Thy chariot, Who walkest upon the wings of the wind;"

It says God makes the clouds his chariot. God travels on his chariots above the clouds. The clouds are not his chariots. For Example, 2 Kings 2:11-12, 2 Kings 6:17. Since Lamsa's translation of Peshitta Tanakh has influences from KJV, this error also ended up in his translation of this verse.

Let's look at Peshitta Tanakh translation from Bauscher.

Psalms 104:3 (Bauscher's translation of Peshitta Tanakh) - He makes his lofty dwellings in the waters and sets his chariot above the clouds and walks upon the wings of the wind.

So we see that this error in Masoretic Text is cleared by Peshita Tanakh. I would say Bauscher's translation is alright. Not great.

[IPOstapyuk]

thank you, konway87, for your input to the cause of truth.
-------------------
Dr. James Murdock's English Peshitta translation:
Hebrews 10:5 - Therefore, when entering the world, he said: In sacrifices and oblations, thou hast not had pleasure; but thou hast clothed me with a body.

It is incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---------------------
"You desired neither sacrifice nor meal offering;you dug ears for me." - Ps. 40:7
(Complete Jewish Bible)

Hmm...this one does not support the incarnation....
Digging in ears replaces sacrifice and offering?
-------------------------
Septuagint
Psalm - Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me..

this one supports the incarnation ...
-------------------------
Lamsa Bible:
Ps. 40:6- ...I now have understanding....

Hmm...this one does not support the incarnation either ....
Understanding replaces sacrifice and offering?
-----------------------------
Ceriani Veteris Testamentum ....hopefully akhan konway87 would help here
------------------------
Oh, Peshitta, only Septuagint supports you here but the Masoretic text fights you again.
Hmm...it is serious doctrinal directions.

[IPOstapyuk]

Dr. James Murdock's English Peshitta translation:
Hebrews 1:6 - And again, when bringing the first begotten into the world, he said: Let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels worship Son of God.
--------------------------------------------
Septuagint
Deut. 32:43
Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him;

What a joy!
---------------------------------------------
(Complete Jewish Bible)
Deut. 32:43
"Sing out, you nations, about his people! For he will avenge the blood of his servants. He will render vengeance to his adversaries and make atonement for the land of his people."

Not so. <!-- s:whatthat: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whatsthat.gif" alt=":whatthat:" title="Whats That" /><!-- s:whatthat: -->
Same with Lamsa translation.
Again Lamsa does not support Peshitta.
-----------------
Again Septuagint supports Peshitta.
What about Ceriani Veteris Testamentum?

[konway87]

It looks like Peshitta Tanakh agrees with Hebrew Masoretic Text on these verses.

[IPOstapyuk]

Small amount of differences between Samaritan Pentateuch and Septuagint and colossal amount of differences between Masoretic text and Samaritan Pentateuch.
What to do then?
Apostle Paul (not sure if Torah too) said that witnessings of two or three is enough to
support a case.
When we look on the Internet in almost all instances Masoretic text and Septuagint is considered. What about Aramaic OT? It is worth to collate the the above verses with Samaritan Pentateuch too.
Why to follow biased talking on the Internet when we see the facts?
Stalin said that facts is a stubborn thing.
Lets move forward then.
-------------
Samaritan Pentateuch:
Gen. 2:2 - "..and finished Elohim in the day sixth ..and had rest in the day seventh from all His works.."
Here goes against Masoretic text.
Deut. 32:43 - No mention about angels of God and this casts shadow of doubt on Septuagint
in this case.