Greek vs. Aramaic

[Paul Younan]

Shlama Akhi Yuri!

PAUL: I never said anyone was "disunited" - what I said, verbatim, was that these communities were independent of one another in scriptures, history, language, ecclesial authority, etc.

YURI: Well, I though that "independent of one another" means "disunited", but I guess I was wrong...

"Dis-united" carries a negative connotation that I did not intend to convey in my original statement.

You and I may be "independent" roofing contractors, but being independent does not necessarily mean that we are not on good terms.

The word "dis-united" contains imagery of separation and bad feelings towards one another.

The 2 churches of the 2 empires were independent of one another, until about 70 years after Ephesus - when they became dis-united. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->

Also, Re: the later Church authorities making efforts to destroy the Diatessaron.

According to his own account, in the late 4th century, Theodoret of Cyrus gathered and destroyed over 200 copies of the Diatessaron, and replaced them with copies of the individual Gospels. I can provide an exact citation if you wish.

None needed - Theodoret of Cyrus was born in Antioch and a Western Christian. He happened to be a bishop of the Western Church - Cyrus was NOT in the Persian empire. He never had anything to do with the Church of the East. Neither did Nestorius, for that matter. This is all a western myth.

I ask for references from the Church of the East, and you keep telling me what the Greeks did. What do I care what the bishop of Cyrus, in the Roman empire - subject to Pope Leo, did or did not do?

How is that relevant to the original argument - about the Church of the East?

You need to demonstrate to me 2 things - (1) that the Church of the Persian Empire used the Diatesseron (or Old Scratch) - (2) and then you need to demonstrate to me that they suppressed it (either the Diatesseron or the Old Scratch.)

So far, you have done neither. :?

PAUL: Then show me direct quotes from either the Diatesseron or Old Scratch in any writing from Mar Aphrahat.

YURI: How about this case, Lk 1:13?

Here, the Peshitta reads exactly like the canonical Greek,

(Greek Lk 1:13) dioti eishkousqh h dehsiV sou
"for thy prayer is heard"

(Peshitta Lk 1:13) mTl d)$tm(t clwtk
"for thy prayer is heard"

But, on the other hand, Aphrahat and Ephrem read differently here, and they agree exactly with each other. (Actually, Ephrem uses this same phrase 3 times!)

(Aphrahat, Demonstrations 57:04) )$tm(t clwtk qdm )lh)
"Thy prayer hath been heard _before God_."

So this obviously comes from the Diatessaron, and God is mentioned here explicitly.

And the OS Sinaitic agrees with Aphrahat here, because, in the OS, God is also explicitly mentioned as hearing Zacharias' prayer.

(Old Syriac Luke 1:13) h) gyr $m( )lh) bql clwtk
_God_ hath hearkened to the voice of thy prayer.

So what we see in this case is that Aphrahat, Ephrem, the Diatessaron, and the OS all agree, because they all mention God in this verse. But the Peshitta agrees with the Greek, and neither mentions God in this verse.

That is a very weak example!

First of all, you don't have the Syriac of the Diatesseron to compare it to. You don't know how it may have read. That's why you didn't give the reading from the Diatesseron!

Secondly, the quote is definitely NOT from Old Scratch! Just because Old Scratch has the word "God" in it means nothing - the word order in the Aramaic is completely different from the quotes you gave.

This is, at best, an argument from silence. It contains too many assumptions and holes - and it is not very scientific at all.

But again, the original point was about Old Scratch. Not about the Diatesseron.

It is obvious from this example that neither Mar Aphrahat nor St. Ephraem was quoting Old Scratch. Like I said before - nobody quoted Old Scratch - because it was just that - scratch paper.

And I'm not at all convinced that they were quoting the Diatesseron - because we don't have the reading for that.

I'm sure there are a lot more such cases that could be found.

Shlama,

Yuri.

Bring them on! <!-- shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="hock:" title="shocked" /><!-- shock: --> And take care, Akhi!