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Word play in aramaic and syriac
#47
memradya Wrote:I'm happy with the answers (a possible pun doesn't mean that it must exist) . But I don't think that Steve agrees with that. I think he will say: why the peshitta is in edessian dialect and not in galilean ? It makes me think about: According to Francis Alichoran , the Peshitta has some tendencies that shows galilee's aramaic and judean's dialect with his hebrew influence.

Indeed, a possible pun doesn't mean it *must* exist. It's not prescriptive, it's a matter of likelihood given the evidence. The /kyp/-/)bn/-/bny/ pun is very likely to have been there originally, regardless of the language of the text in question, given: 1) The original language of the speaker, 2) How the words are arrayed in juxtaposition, and 3) The nature of oral and written transmission itself.

As Paul said earlier, as parables and stories were told and retold, even by the same person, they wouldn't be identical or recited, but likely different, sometimes even changing for the intended audience. Even when scripts were recited by actors in the ancient world, they did similar things.

As for archaic forms in the Peshitta, the consensus is that the text, in its form as we have it *today*, is a 5th century work revised from earlier sources. In some places, older Old-ish Syriac forms do show through, but they are straddled between 5th century Classical Syriac.

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Paul Younan Wrote:For the same reason the GNT is in Koine Greek, instead of a Corinthian dialect or an Ephesian Dialect.

Bingo. Audience. Christianity went from an almost exclusively Jewish movement to a nearly all-Gentile movement in a few short generations. Compiling the New Testament in Greek allowed transmission to be a lot more effective.

Paul Younan Wrote:Eastern Aramaic was by and large the most widespread family of dialects. In order to evangelize, the NT was written in this "Koine Aramaic." Instead of Galilean which only a few locales used.

Indeed, Western Aramaic in Jesus' day was only spoken predominantly in Galilee and Samaria and after the fall of the Temple slowly began to die out over the course of 1,000 years. As I mentioned earlier, that's the reason why the Galilean texts we have that survive to this day are in such poor condition (the transmission of Western Aramaic by Eastern Aramaic scribes).

I wouldn't call the language of the Peshitta a "Koine" by any means, though. It's a Classical, literary dialect, very highly structured and very well-written, and in many ways more formal than would have been spoken day by day. That's one of a countless number of things that helped it survive to modern times. :-)

Paul Younan Wrote:Akhi Steve, I must be done with this conversation (in love). We will allow our readers to weigh the evidence we've both provided, and decide for themselves. I'm afraid neither one of us is going to see the other side. The reader is intelligent enough to make up their own mind in regards to the wordplays in Matthew and in James (whether real or imagined.)

We come from two different viewpoints and world views, but we do share a common passion for Aramaic. I commend you and encourage you to continue in your work to the glory of God our Father, in whatever language and dialect you do it in. It is much appreciated and treasured by me and, I'm sure, countless others.

I respect your wishes, akhi. I have truly found our conversation and exchange engaging, and perhaps we may pick it up again in the future. Aramaic studies is a life pursuit, and one that I shall always sustain. God bless you and keep you.

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I just can't seem to keep up, this thread is such a hot-potato. <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: --> More replies forthcoming... <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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Messages In This Thread
Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 02-27-2013, 08:26 PM
RE: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thomas - 05-27-2020, 04:56 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 02-28-2013, 04:10 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2013, 04:27 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 02-28-2013, 05:06 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 03-01-2013, 06:59 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-01-2013, 07:45 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-01-2013, 08:25 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 03-01-2013, 08:40 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-02-2013, 01:07 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-03-2013, 07:29 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-04-2013, 12:58 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-04-2013, 08:47 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 03-04-2013, 08:53 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-05-2013, 04:37 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 03-06-2013, 07:18 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-06-2013, 07:48 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-07-2013, 05:23 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-07-2013, 06:23 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by SteveCaruso - 03-07-2013, 07:43 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by distazo - 03-07-2013, 10:49 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-07-2013, 05:16 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-08-2013, 01:23 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-08-2013, 04:11 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 03-08-2013, 04:47 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by memradya - 03-09-2013, 08:19 PM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 06-25-2014, 02:46 AM
Re: Word play in aramaic and syriac - by Thirdwoe - 06-28-2014, 09:12 PM

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