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AENT Errors
#61
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Ummm, Mr. Wilson...it means that they went down into the water and came back up, he was Baptized in water that day, after hearing Philip teaching about the need for him to be, as Apostle Peter taught the people some time before, "Repent and be Baptized".

Apostle Paul only Baptized a few believers in water, but all the many others were also Baptized in water by others who were appointed to do so. If Apostle Paul stayed around each place he was sent by The Holy Spirit to evangelize, and Baptized everyone, he would have much less time doing the other things he was called to do, not that it was not needed to be done, but he and his fellow Apostles appointed "Elders in every city", who carried out that essential work...

Also you seem to be very confused about a number of things, where you mix up the narratives of secular historians with The Holy Scriptures, unless I read you wrong there, and if not, please tell us that you are not planning on creating a new version of The New Testament, with these wrong applications and wrong interpretations.

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#62
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Quote:Isn't it the UBS Critical text? Changed to update (most) major variants between east and west?

Luc, as far as I can tell, Andrew uses the 1920 UBS text in his 1st edition and changed out some readings to match what is found in The Khabouris text. But not always, where he misses a number of things. Also, the Khabouris has many lesser variants, than the big ones, which are not present in Andrew?s edited Aramaic text...It is in no way representative of The Khabouris as a whole, but much more so the UBS text, which contains all the western variants, both small and large. So this is a Roth critical text, which can't be said to be either the UBS text, or The Khabouris text.

He did with the Aramaic text, what he did with the English text of Younan and Murdoch, making a new version of it. I don't see a translator here, but an editor...which is too bad, because he could have taken his time and done it right. Perhaps he was rushed by others, who wanted to supply a demand? It may take many years to get his edition right, and I think you are doing the right thing in bringing these many things to his attention...hopefully one day it will really be a real translation of The Aramaic/English New Testament: The Eastern Peshitta. It's not that yet, but closer than most others out there today.

I don't mean to be too critical, just want to be very honest, and want an honest translation.

Shlama,
Chuck

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#63
Yeah, but this is not new information. I've read AENT since it was first released, and Roth has explained basically everything you just said in his introduction. But at the same time, I think you're right in that it was partially rushed. I also think his intention was primarily the commentary and that Younan and Murdock were used as a last minute decision of "let's turn this commentary into a study bible". After all, Andrew wanted to just post it up on his website until Baruch convinced him to publish it instead. So right from the get go I think it was primarily a Netzari Study Bible as opposed to a scholarly Peshitta translation. But it's popular and I regularly meet people who use it, and since Andrew does want to work with the Body to make it better (he admits his own shortfalls and encourages people to be critical in the introduction as well) that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Plus, it was my introduction to the Aramaic, so I have a soft spot for it, even if I don't always agree with him.

And I definitely agree - it will be nice if one day it becomes a true Eastern peshitta in every sense of the word without any typographical or major translation errors. I know for the Aramaic text he just grabbed what was available for free use, but maybe he could try and get the Mosul edition of the Peshitta that's been transliterated into Hebrew characters already by the Bible Society in Israel? But then the text would need an in-depth run through to ensure that the English matched up with any small varients that may appear in this version compared to what was worked from in the past for Murdock's, Younan's and then his own translation.
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#64
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:I know for the Aramaic text he just grabbed what was available for free use, but maybe he could try and get the Mosul edition of the Peshitta that's been transliterated into Hebrew characters already by the Bible Society in Israel?
What about the one posted by Younan for the 22 Books of the Eastern PeshittA:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/eastern_aramaic_peshitta.htm">http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicN ... shitta.htm</a><!-- m -->


Luc Lefebvre Wrote:But then the text would need an in-depth run through to ensure that the English matched up with any small varients that may appear in this version compared to what was worked from in the past for Murdock's, Younan's and then his own translation.
Yes, a "word for word translation" so to speak. And hopefully by his Sixth Edition.

And he could stick with using the text he has for the Western 5 already.
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#65
Thirdwoe wrote:
"Also you seem to be very confused about a number of things, where you mix up the narratives of secular historians with The Holy Scriptures, unless I read you wrong there, and if not, please tell us that you are not planning on creating a new version of The New Testament, with these wrong applications and wrong interpretations."

I'm not planning on creating a new version of the NT, with these wrong applications and wrong interpretations.

The shorter short version: Years ago, I re-read Mark, especially the early chapters. Something - some association - connected in my mind. Something about the "Man with the Withered Hand":
"Is it lawful on the sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?"

Now if the story is as it is written, everything makes sense right up to the last phrase, "...to save life or to kill."
What does healing a man with a withered hand have to do with saving life or killing?

Before you answer, step back for a moment. Your answer will probably be a statement of context, possibly stating that those who are trying to trick Jesus are trying to catch him in an awkward response so that they can deliver him to the authorities to be killed.
Am I allowed that same interpretation of meaning?
Perhaps you will state that it is not interpretation, the meaning is clear.

"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. "

How long is a generation? Clearly. Jesus says that THIS generation shall not pass till these things take place. If these are clear and distinct and you believe them, then you must believe that Titus was the Messiah. No more than 40 years later, Titus laid waste to the villages of Galilee, built up siege works against Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and left no stone on top of another. IF you see these things THEN know that the Messiah is here. Titus is the only person who could fulfill those conditions.

Will you allow me at least the same possibility to see correctly that you have?
Let me continue in a much less argumentative manner, for I am NOT against you!
As I moved through the early chapters of Mark, I came to the 2 most important stories for me - "The Woman with the 12 Year Issue of Blood" and "Jairus' Daughter". The woman has been Ritually Unclean for 12 years. In Mark, the statement is quite touching:

" For she said, "If I touch even his garments, I shall be made well."

Jesus' response is critical to understanding what I see:

"And Jesus, perceiving in himself that power had gone forth from him, immediately turned about in the crowd, and said, "Who touched my garments?" "

And in the other Gospels it is "Who touched ME?"! (Also, see in Mark, "Are we to drown, FOR ALL YOU CARE?" In the other Gospels, it is "Teacher, we are DROWNING!") Something in the other Gospels has been hidden, something has been "smoothed over" to hide intentionality and meaning. If the story of the "Woman..." is about "Garments" then try to understand what I see. There is only one meaning for "Garments". This is a Story about the Priesthood. Right out of Leviticus.
I latched onto the "12 years" phrase in both "The Woman..." and "Jairus' Daughter" and, to shorten the story, began to see them as Symbolic Stories rather than Miracle Stories. "What happened 12 years prior to this?" What happened that would cause a Ritual Uncleanliness for the Priesthood? For 12 years? Then I found the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE. At least 3000 people are killed in the Temple areas and Passover is cancelled. It is not just the Priesthood, it is the Nation itself.
Jesus heals a man with a withered hand. "What could this man not be able to do? WRITE!!! He is a Scribe and cannot write about what happened.

Jesus has a HISTORY. He knows those who are trying to kill him and they know him. Which makes Jairus' Daughter a Political Story.
[22] Then came one of the rulers of the synagogue, Ja'irus by name; and seeing him, he fell at his feet,
[23] and besought him, saying, "My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live."
...
[42] And immediately the girl got up and walked (she was twelve years of age), and they were immediately overcome with amazement.

Thirdwoe, believe me, I looked for contradictions, a reason to stop. I never found one. For years, I had no idea why "12 years" was important. However, one thing led to another and another and... I don't know how else to say it:
This is the Story of the Priests of the Service Group "Immer", the last of the contributions of Eleazar, found in 1 Chronicles 24, from the Johoiarib to Immer. The Story has been dismembered and rearranged for a different end.

There is an Aramaic Primacy in the New Testament, a Primacy of the Story of the House of Eleazar. "Who were they and what did they communicate?" You cannot find it "merely" by looking at the Greek view. To understand this idea is why I'm here.
I am not against you and I have the highest respect for your understanding. I do not wish to spread false ideas. Again: If this History has been intentionally lost and rewritten and yet might still be seen, would it be important to show that History? And if we could identify those who destroyed this History and see the Stories they wrote to replace what they tried to hide, would it be important?

Charles
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#66
The Texas RAT Wrote:
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:I know for the Aramaic text he just grabbed what was available for free use, but maybe he could try and get the Mosul edition of the Peshitta that's been transliterated into Hebrew characters already by the Bible Society in Israel?
What about the one posted by Younan for the 22 Books of the Eastern PeshittA:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/eastern_aramaic_peshitta.htm">http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicN ... shitta.htm</a><!-- m -->
That's the Western Peshitto, but a work in progress to make it more like the Eastern Peshitta. So, in other words, no different from Roth's text.

The Texas RAT Wrote:
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:But then the text would need an in-depth run through to ensure that the English matched up with any small varients that may appear in this version compared to what was worked from in the past for Murdock's, Younan's and then his own translation.
Yes, a "word for word translation" so to speak. And hopefully by his Sixth Edition.

And he could stick with using the text he has for the Western 5 already.
Well, thinking about it, in the English it actually wouldn't make much difference. Maybe a few minor changes here and there, but nothing that would change the text as far as I understand (or have sen). It would just be cool for those of us who want to study the Aramaic text a little closer (although I have the Eastern Peshitta in Hebrew characters elsewhere).

Charles, how is your discussion relevant to errors in the AENT? You might want to start another thread for your discussion.
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#67
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:
The Texas RAT Wrote:
Luc Lefebvre Wrote:I know for the Aramaic text he just grabbed what was available for free use, but maybe he could try and get the Mosul edition of the Peshitta that's been transliterated into Hebrew characters already by the Bible Society in Israel?
What about the one posted by Younan for the 22 Books of the Eastern PeshittA:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/eastern_aramaic_peshitta.htm">http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicN ... shitta.htm</a><!-- m -->
That's the Western Peshitto, but a work in progress to make it more like the Eastern Peshitta. So, in other words, no different from Roth's text.
You think Paul did as shotty a job as Roth, or perhaps
Paul (at least) removed ALL the EXTRA STUFF?
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#68
:

It seems to me that he made his work much harder than it needed to be, but it must have paid off...and continues to with people needing to continue to buy a new edition every year or so, as he fixes all the errors and slowly brings the English text and the Aramaic text together, so they match.

To me, this is terrible, and should never have been done the way it was done. Was it about money? He could have put his teachings online for free, and took the time he has been given, to bring forth an accurate and faithful translation of The Eastern Peshitta.

I pray that the forth coming Official English New Testament by The Church of The East, will blow all this other chaff away...and I know that also, one day, Alaha willing, The Khabouris Manuscript will be seen in English translation, in a faithful, literal, and accurate rendering of its Eastern Aramaic text.

Blessings,
Chuck

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#69
It'll be an awesome day. I have a strong desire to translate at least the New Testament sometime, but I'll need to learn the languages first! Hopefully it won't be too long before we get those wishes granted. I find it interesting that the Peshitto seems to be more popular with translators than the Peshitta. Why is this, I wonder?
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#70
:

Mr. Wilson,

I'm going to tell you this, because I care about your soul. It would be better for you, and others who might hear you, if you didn't teach your privet interpretations. You will be held accountable for everything you teach falsely. It's a very serious matter with God. I'm being gentle with you here, and admonishing you, not condemning you. You're not called by God to teach these things to people and He is not giving you these ideas.

Also, something you need to know...By God's mercy and grace, my ears don't itch and are not tickelish either.

Shlama,
Chuck

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#71
I appreciate your concern, Thirdwoe. I will not respond with hate or cynicism because I believe I understand from where your concern comes.
When I posted again a short time time ago, I told others that I was worried that I would receive just this type of response.
I don't believe the response is warranted.

I would request that you look at a few verses for a moment.

Revelation 7: 13 - 14 and the verses that follow (not quoted here for space reasons. I already have too many too long posts)

[13] Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?"
[14] I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If it could be shown that the "Great Tribulation" occurred when Alexander Jannaeus lived in the mountains for 6 years, under attack from the Greek general Demetrius, the Pharisees and mercenary Jews, would that be important? These survivors hunger no more, neither thirst anymore. They are sheltered by he who sits on the Throne. If this person on the Throne was thought at the time to be Alexander Jannaeus, would that be important? Do you know what Jannaeus did when he returned to Jerusalem? Woe to those women who are pregnant with child or give suck in those days! Is that important to know?

Salome gives these survivors refuge in the fortresses. If this is where they live their lives, what do they do? The Herodians and Romans occupy the government. The Pharisees occupy the bureaucracy. Is this important?

These people are linked with those who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the...."IMMAR". Sorta' like..."IMMER".
But these are sorta' like...the Alpha and Omega of the Mishmarot Service Groups under what might called The House of Eleazar. So the Priesthood is the only place left for the Hasmonaeans and the descendants of Eleazar. Remember, Hannah prayed for the redemption of Jerusalem. Is this important?
Is it important at this point to even care to know who Alexander Janneaus was? IF NOT, WHY NOT?

This isn't a "Private Interpretation", a phrase obviously meant to isolate me here. Is it important to see if there is in fact a History here, a History written in
Aramaic, not Greek? I'm not a Mythicist or one of the others. If there is a History of the Jewish People that was stolen, ripped to shreds and then rewritten to a different end, would that be important?

C'mon, Thirdwoe, answer these questions. It's important.

Charles
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#72
:

I'm not at all interested to learn what might be in your head, Mr. Wilson. I have a Teacher already, and He knows everything about everything. I knew you wouldn't heed the good advice I gave you, but I had to warn you anyway.

I'm not going to mock or be rude to you...but, this forum is about The Peshitta. I'll ask you nicley to please remove all your posts of unrelated matter to this thread, which does not lend to it's subject. This is about errors in the AENT.

Shlama,
Chuck
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#73
Hi Charles

Please refrain from doing what you did a number of years ago. Your posts are unclear, confusing and don't make any sense in the context of the subject matter. Frankly I don't make any sense of them at all. Don't you think these posts belong on another website?

Shamasha
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#74
I'm closing my part of this out. I've responded as to why I posted on this thread.
'N I do have some errors to look into - later.

You made the huge mistake of thinking that I was giving you information about what's inside my head. From the fact that I use language, it does not follow that you may infer mental states. Trust me on this one, you have shown ZERO understanding of what's going on in my head. That doesn't matter, however. What matters is that you would not even bother to consider the Biblical Subjects and what I wrote about them. Instead, you judged me. How sad.

Finally: Yes, this is about the Peshitta. It's not about Greek. Why is that important?
It is important because if there were stories of Aramaic origin instead of Greek origin, then maybe some linguistic clues may be left to increase our understanding.

Albert Einstein, Nathan Rosen and Boris Podolsky wrote a paper, "Can Quantum-Mechanical Description of Physical Reality be Considered Complete?". Which of these three wrote most of the paper? The answer is Podolsky. How can one tell? Because Podolsky's first language was Russian. There is no "the" in the title, as in, "Can THE Quantum -Mechanical...".

But this is where I came in. Does the implication of the translation, "My God, my God, for this was I spared?" make sense?
OH, YES! But it makes sense for a reason that is and has been hidden.

I am deeply sorry for you, that you would not even consider it.

Charles
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#75
:

Ok Mr. Wilson, but please don't loose any sleep over me, I'm in very good hands. I tried hard not to offend you, but I'm not a perfect man, as yet. Let's give it some more time, and with God's help, I'll reach the goal.

Shlama,
Chuck
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