Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Translations Compared: Eastern or Western?
#61
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhi Chuck,
Don't quote me on this, but I do remember reading somewhere that Ms. Magiera was on the Way International translation team.

+Shamasha

I have read this in more than one place myself.
Reply
#62
:

If it's true that she was, it makes sense. The Way has a three volume interlinear, like she does, has a numbered concordance with them like she does, has Jennings lexicon with them, like she does...but Janet's are in a vertical interlinear form, unlike The Way's edition. Not sure about all this, or if it's a bad thing or not really...Janet has her editions available online, while The Way does not...you can't find it at all...and Amazon has some from somebody on their site, selling them for major jacked up prices. Not cool, as they only cost 24.95 for each volume and are top quality editions.

When I called The Way's office, a lady there who I ordered the three vol. Interlinear from, said that they are always available, but not on their online site...you have to call and ask for them. I don't even think that they mention them at their site, which is kind of strange right?

I'm wondering if they might not be too fond of them over there, but would like to sell them off? They haven't been updated since the 80s, and maybe they never sold too well? The office lady seemed to love them though and said she had her own copies...so I don't know.

Q: Was this translation the basis for James Trimm's Hebrew Roots NT? I think I heard that before, but not sure.

They look good to me so far, as for accuracy of translation, but would like it better if they had been more true to the Aramaic wordings, like "Alaha" "Marya" "Eshu M'shikha" and The Rukha d'Qudsha, but it's an English translation right? Not a transliteration <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> Though I'm glad to look at some English translations from Aramaic Manuscripts from the 5th-6th century.

Shamasha Paul, do you know what the origin of these four MS might be? They have some of the Western readings, so I don't think they would be from The Church of the East, right? Also, do you know of any way to get a copy of the text you use for The Eastern Peshitta? I need to ask Qasha Lawrence about a neat New Testament he has which I saw one day while I was talking to him, he was showing me its text, were the original Aramaic text is paralleled with the modern Assyrian text. Not sure what it's called, but I want one of those for sure too.


Shlama,
Chuck

.
Reply
#63
Thirdwoe Wrote::Q: Was this translation the basis for James Trimm's Hebrew Roots NT? I think I heard that before, but not sure.
Chuck, just as you have shown word for word above that Janet's stuff is almost word for word with the Way International's translation so to the PDF at the following link shows the HRV is almost word for word with the Way International's translation.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/116015801/Proof-James-Trimm-Plagiarized-the-Way-International-NT">http://www.scribd.com/doc/116015801/Pro ... ational-NT</a><!-- m -->
Reply
#64
Thirdwoe Wrote::

If it's true that she was, it makes sense. The Way has a three volume interlinear, like she does, has a numbered concordance with them like she does, has Jennings lexicon with them, like she does...but Janet's are in a vertical interlinear form, unlike The Way's edition. Not sure about all this, or if it's a bad thing or not really...Janet has her editions available online, while The Way does not...you can't find it at all...and Amazon has some from somebody on their site, selling them for major jacked up prices. Not cool, as they only cost 24.95 for each volume and are top quality editions.

When I called The Way's office, a lady there who I ordered the three vol. Interlinear from, said that they are always available, but not on their online site...you have to call and ask for them. I don't even think that they mention them at their site, which is kind of strange right?

I'm wondering if they might not be too fond of them over there, but would like to sell them off? They haven't been updated since the 80s, and maybe they never sold too well? The office lady seemed to love them though and said she had her own copies...so I don't know.

Q: Was this translation the basis for James Trimm's Hebrew Roots NT? I think I heard that before, but not sure.

They look good to me so far, as for accuracy of translation, but would like it better if they had been more true to the Aramaic wordings, like "Alaha" "Marya" "Eshu M'shikha" and The Rukha d'Qudsha, but it's an English translation right? Not a transliteration <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink --> Though I'm glad to look at some English translations from Aramaic Manuscripts from the 5th-6th century.

Shamasha Paul, do you know what the origin of these four MS might be? They have some of the Western readings, so I don't think they would be from The Church of the East, right? Also, do you know of any way to get a copy of the text you use for The Eastern Peshitta? I need to ask Qasha Lawrence about a neat New Testament he has which I saw one day while I was talking to him, he was showing me its text, were the original Aramaic text is paralleled with the modern Assyrian text. Not sure what it's called, but I want one of those for sure too.


Shlama,
Chuck

.

Shlama Akhi Chuck,

I believe their text is the UBS text, which would represent the Western manuscript tradition. A quick check of Acts 20:28 should verify that if you flip to that verse (the litmus test).

I believe Janet specifically worked on the concordance portion, which also is the basis of SEDRA (George Kiraz's database he created from their raw text files after obtaining permission.) It's SEDRA that is the basis of the Lexicon I use on this website, which also has the credits to both SEDRA and The Way International (after receiving permission from them to use it.) We are all connected in that sense from the massive work they did. It's not perfect (many errors in the Lexicon), but I am not able to legally modify it in any way.

Here is a copy of the official Church of the East text (modern font with vowel markings.) http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/peshitta.pdf

+Shamasha
Reply
#65
Thanks, Shamasha Paul,

In their intro to their "The Aramaic New Testament: Estrangelo Script", TWI says that they used MS 14453, 14470, 14473, and 14475 for the 22 books. And for the W5, used the Harklean and Crawford text, via John Gwynn's editions.

Here is some info on each of these MS.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_Syriac_New_Testament_manuscripts">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_th ... anuscripts</a><!-- m -->

Acts 20:28 is said to be translated by them from MS 14473 which they show as reading "the church of God" in their literal translation, where "d'Alaha" is shown in their printed Aramaic text of the MS.

In the list of the 17 variants at the top of this thread, I show the other place in their edition, which show that some verses are of the Eastern reading, and some are from the western reading, which in these places (Eastern), don't match the BFBS/UBS text. A mixed bag.



..
Reply
#66
The Way's source texts said to be of the 5th-6th centuries, show a mixture of Eastern and Western variant readings, as follows:

MS. 14453
Eastern = Mark 14:31, Luke 22: 17-18
Western = Matt 6:32, Matt 21:4, John 16:22, but, for John 7:53 and John 8:1-11 these are given in [brackets] in TWI's printed text, so the MS. may not have these in the actual text.

MS. 14473
Eastern = Acts 8:37, 16:34, 28:29
Western = Acts 20:28, James 3:10

MS. 14475
Eastern = 2nd Thess 3:18
Western = Philemon 1:25, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:16

.
Reply
#67
:

Quote:Do they place the before it (e.g. - "the lord")?

Yes, TWI has "the lord", in both the translation and the interlinear renderings, and Joseph Pashka's translation of The Peshitto, has it "the Lord", with the whole Estrangleo text verses shown above the English translation of each verse, not interlinear though, and just the four Gospels and Acts.

.
Reply
#68
:

Update: I have found another variant in the Eastern/Western texts, and have updated the list and stats. Here is the varient and those translations that have either reading.

Ephesians 1:8
Peshitta: reads "of The Spirit" at the end of the verse, as does Etheridge; where Roth, Murdoch and Lamsa all have ("Spiritual") and Norton has ("the Spirit's") and Alexander has ("of Spirit").
Peshitto: doesn't have any mention of "Spirit" or "Spiritual" in the text, nor does Magiera, Bauscsher, or Jhan. The Way International's ANT & MS. ADD 14475 (5th-6th century) does not have it.

Shlama,
Chuck
Reply
#69
:

Found another one...and updated the list and stats on the 1st page of this thread.

Ephesians: 1:15
Peshitta: reads "all the Holy Ones" as does Etheridge, Murdoch, Roth, Lamsa, Norton, Alexander, and even Bauscher (though his Interlinear translation and text has the Western Peshitto reading).
Peshitto: reads "the Holy Ones" as does Magiera, and Jahn, while The Way International's TANT & MS. ADD 14475 (5th-6th century), have the Western reading.
Reply
#70
.
Reply
#71
It's not a translation, but does anyone have Michael P. Williams' Syriac New Testament? It'd be interesting to see what text it follows, but considering it's popularity, I'm guessing it follows the Peshitto.
Reply
#72
:

According to the sample they show on Amazon, John 16:27 is from the Western text, having "Alaha" rather than "The Father"

.
Reply
#73
Hmmmm...It's a wonder why there has never been a completely Peshitta translation. I don't see why Roth doesn't go ahead and update the 1 Peshitto passage he has in his.
Reply
#74
ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Hmmmm...It's a wonder why there has never been a completely Peshitta translation. I don't see why Roth doesn't go ahead and update the 1 Peshitto passage he has in his.
The only reason I can think of is because he doesn't know that Paul made a mistake and thinks that it is simply a variation in Khabouris and that the Eastern text generally reads differently. But, this of course is not the case. Very small variation though. Hade deyn kula dahawat...
Reply
#75
If only he was still on here lol!
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)