01-02-2012, 04:07 PM
Hi Bella,
First, welcome to the forum.
The comments from the poster are typical of the average person who is unfamiliar with Aramaic primacy. The breadth of his/her argument is that the scholarly consensus is that Greek was the original, and that because the earliest fragments are in Greek, therefore that must have been the original language of the New Testament.
I'm afraid there's not much in a single reply that would overturn such faulty line of reasoning. It is the entire picture we look at here on this forum. And we don't place much emphasis, if at all, on scholarly consensus or tradition. We look at the texts, side-by-side, and allow the story of the texts themselves to be told.
I've found throughout the years here on the forum that even when a person is fixed in their belief, once they see evidences to the contrary one of two things happens: if they are truly open to the possibility that they're wrong and willing to change their mind, they do readily once the examples of Aramaic primacy are shown to them in a reasonable manner. The evidence in many cases is that powerful.
But it's not a magic one-off that you can show someone. It's really more a cumulative effect from seeing example after example of mistranslations, semiticisms, etc. One type of proof is powerful enough, but then when you start to add in all the others, it becomes undeniable. After a while they begin to become convinced.
I would start with any number of posts from the Mistranslations forum. These tend to be very powerful proofs.
Try this variant from 1Corinthians 8:11 http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1363 - very simple example to reconcile two variant Greek readings by showing how close two Aramaic words are in spelling.
Or how about a completely missed meaning in the Greek of James ? http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=364 A nice example of how the imagery was completely missed in Greek, and more importantly ... why.
In John 21:15-17, if we use only the Greek we totally miss the beautiful imagery Christ was trying to convey when He alluded to His sheep as Children, Men and Women: http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51
Then of course there is the Acts 2:24 example which is as clear an example of Aramaic Primacy as you can find (an outright mistake in Greek that is undeniable): http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48
There are so many examples like this that I cannot fit them all in here. Perhaps you can invite the people on the other forum here, at least to browse our posts.
Take care,
Shamasha Paul
First, welcome to the forum.
The comments from the poster are typical of the average person who is unfamiliar with Aramaic primacy. The breadth of his/her argument is that the scholarly consensus is that Greek was the original, and that because the earliest fragments are in Greek, therefore that must have been the original language of the New Testament.
I'm afraid there's not much in a single reply that would overturn such faulty line of reasoning. It is the entire picture we look at here on this forum. And we don't place much emphasis, if at all, on scholarly consensus or tradition. We look at the texts, side-by-side, and allow the story of the texts themselves to be told.
I've found throughout the years here on the forum that even when a person is fixed in their belief, once they see evidences to the contrary one of two things happens: if they are truly open to the possibility that they're wrong and willing to change their mind, they do readily once the examples of Aramaic primacy are shown to them in a reasonable manner. The evidence in many cases is that powerful.
But it's not a magic one-off that you can show someone. It's really more a cumulative effect from seeing example after example of mistranslations, semiticisms, etc. One type of proof is powerful enough, but then when you start to add in all the others, it becomes undeniable. After a while they begin to become convinced.
I would start with any number of posts from the Mistranslations forum. These tend to be very powerful proofs.
Try this variant from 1Corinthians 8:11 http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1363 - very simple example to reconcile two variant Greek readings by showing how close two Aramaic words are in spelling.
Or how about a completely missed meaning in the Greek of James ? http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=364 A nice example of how the imagery was completely missed in Greek, and more importantly ... why.
In John 21:15-17, if we use only the Greek we totally miss the beautiful imagery Christ was trying to convey when He alluded to His sheep as Children, Men and Women: http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51
Then of course there is the Acts 2:24 example which is as clear an example of Aramaic Primacy as you can find (an outright mistake in Greek that is undeniable): http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48
There are so many examples like this that I cannot fit them all in here. Perhaps you can invite the people on the other forum here, at least to browse our posts.
Take care,
Shamasha Paul