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A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof
Burning one, So that you don't accuse me of not responding in love, please remember that the scripture tells us to CONVINCE, REBUKE, EXHORT with ALL LONG-SUFFERING and DOCTRINE>

By the way, if your other friend thought your posts are verbose, he better buckle in, because this ones gonna make him faint, since this matter needs to be dealt with once and for all. <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->

My first question is: "What world are you living in?" None of your answers make any sense "at all" to me, they are merely trying to side-step my very pertinent, and weighty factual answers. Either that, or your sincerity is misplaced, because i don't see ANY substance behind "ANY" of your answers.

I'll get started shall IBig Grinitto THE FIRST NINE WORDS of your response, please go back and read it before you continuing reading this, and listen carefully this time, it looks like i'm gonna have to spell this out the long way.

For starters your comparing apples with oranges. That example you use of Asians in new York or WHEREVER, is not the same situation as ancient Greece. Those Asians you speak of are "mostly" relatively recent arrivals that have not learned English yet. I live in Melbourne Australia, which is riddled with Asians, and 90 out of 100 of them can speak either fluent English or enough to get by, the rest are recent arrivals that haven't learn't English properly yet. Also we have 220 different nationalities here, Polynesians, Dutch, Greeks, Arabs, Sudanese, Italians, Macedonians, Taiwanese, Koreans, Japanese, Irish, Scottish, Russians, Lebanese, Iranians, Egyptians, Indians, Turkish, Maltese, Africans etc etc etc you name it, there here, this city is more of a melting pot than Greece ever was, believe me. But despite all these different races living here, after any reasonable amount of time they converse in English, they have their native language for the few of their own clan that understand it, but even then they speak to each other in English. When i go to any shop owned by those foreigners they all converse in English, as they do also in the streets. Their native language is very rarely used. They conform to the national language which is English, it doesn't take them very long after arriving here to learn English. And even then there are the ones who are born here that speak English, just like the Jews who were born in Greece, and the other Jews who chose to migrate there for all practical purposes would have spoken in Greek. The national language in Greece, was Greek, yeah, so just like here in my city, same goes in ancient Greece, all nationalities conformed to the national language. Just like here in Melbourne the national language is English, so they all conform, quite normal don't you think?
Now, we have many Muslim mosques here, many more Mosques per head of capita than there was Synagogues in Greece. All these Muslims here speak ENGLISH, although having Arabic as a native language which they speak only in there inner circles, otherwise its English all the way. Now if i had been sent into Melbourne to convert Melburnians to the faith, mainly I'm not going to come here and preach in Dutch or Arab or Indian to suit each person, it makes sense to preach in the national or dominant language of that area, right? Remember, "large multitudes" were converted to the faith in Greece, 99% of which spoke Greek. It would not make sense for me to go into a Mosque in an English land and start preaching in Arabic would it, simply because half of them were born here and are fluent in English, plus non-Arab English speaking Muslims are there also, plus the ones who do speak Arabic speak perfect English anyway, correct? So common sense dictates that I would speak in the universal national language for the sake of the majority, much more practical, correct?

Paul was sent to the Gentiles, correct? God did not say i'm sending you to the Jews sojourning in foreign lands did he? Some Jews happened to live there, yes, but that was not who God sent him to was it? They just happened to be there as well, so Paul took the opportunity to go into synagogues while he was there and hopefully let them know the good news too, but any Jews that did convert would have only made up a minority of the overall number of Gentiles and Greeks who were converted, who all spoke the national language GREEK, do i need to type that again for you GREEK. So when addressing the GENTILE, GREEK churches, in Paul's epistles, you would write it in the dominant language that everyone understood including the FEW Jews who were converted, clearly it makes sense to use the language that they all understand, why would you write one in Aramaic and then one in Greek when they ALL understood Greek perfectly well, Greek convert majority wins, so that the end of Aramaic primacy!
The way you and other Aramaic primacists speak, anyone would have thought Greek was populated by 90% Jews, or that Greece's national language was Aramaic, which you know it was not, you know it, I know it, my Greek friends know it, historians know it, and everyone else on this planet knows it, and the ALL THE GREEKS LIVING IN GREECE KNOW IT, take a flight over there and ask them for yourself, Burning one, so drop it will ya, its getting a bit long in the tooth all these "up in the air" non-substantiated claims of yours.

Now how say you that Paul was writing to mostly Semitic groups, are you trying to suggest that Greece was dominated by Arabic speaking Arabs and Jews, and that Arabic was the national dominant language of Greece? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> LOL I think you better wake up mate, your asserting some very strange things to my ears, i want to know therefore what these things mean, because show me in Greece today where the Aramaic language is <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> , SHEEESH! Since when were Galatians Semitic??????? <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh --> Remember! Greece took over the land and imposed everything GREEK and everything GREEK culture and everything GREEK language, not the Jews!!! <!-- sTongue --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/poketoungeb.gif" alt="Tongue" title="Poke Tounge" /><!-- sTongue --> Are you telling me that Corinth was 90% or even 50% Jewish dominated??? Are you suggesting that Ephesus was Jewish dominated, come on matey, snap out of it and get real, these suggestions and denials of yours are getting very tedious and boring. Acts 1:19 doesn't give any answer at all, it says "so that in the 'own' language," right, which means that their spoken language was Greek, but they named that field in their "own" native language Khakal-Dema. Why would Luke have to make special mention of naming that field in their "OWN" language, if they were all speaking it already, their would be no point it making the point of saying it, would there. What sort of logic are you using here??? Paul may have been utterly conversant in Aramaic, but thats because he had to go and specially learn it under Gamaliel, why, because it wasn't the national spoken language, thats why. If i already speak English in an English society, do i need to go and be taught English, NO!

No! Greek wasn't something he was familiar with, he was utterly conversant in it. It was a GREEK RULED LAND AND HEBREWS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK ARAMAIC IN PUBLIC, they could only use it in private. Out in society ONLY GREEK WAS ALLOWED TO BE SPOKEN, so Paul was like ALL JEWS, FLUENT IN GREEK!!! SHEEESH!!! You are making some HUGE misplaced assumptions that fail logically, do ethnic groups exist today in the world inside a country whose offical language they do not speak? YES. Do i have to give more examples than here in Melbourne, people live all over the globe who do not speak the official language of their country, exactly, thats because they are "minorities" this is rudimentary knowledge burning one.

Listen, and listen good Burning one, if you think independently verified odds of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 for the numeric text are to be dismissed about Dr Panin, then i don't know were you get your logic from. You balk at a difference of 3 words in one chapter, and thats the basis for your rejection, go look at you Aramaic versions, they have more problems than that between texts. Not that it is a problem, because its mathematically perfect. <!-- s:| --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/neutral.gif" alt=":|" title="Neutral" /><!-- s:| --> You can't give any other example except some obscure meaningless excuse about 3 ennie pennie words??? That points to nothing significant, and then you discount a "Professor" of Mathematics that tutored Einstein, and spent 50, i better say that again, 50 years of his life to verify such a thing, and you come in here and stick your nose up at him, come ooooon Burning one!
I know the Greek texts Burning one, believe me, Mr Panin has nailed it, he didn't spend 50 YEARS of his life to change 3 words matey, surely you can understand that. I can assure you his text is "PERFECT" No one scrutinizes the Greek texts more than me, ive done it for 25 years, believe me, he has done it. It is utterly flawless. You simply don't appear to grasp the importance of what he has done, you come up with some silly defamation against him, and some other rumour, so that you can keep believing in your corrupted Aramaic second hand text, well that's up to you.

Many Aramaic words were able to be understood from people who spoke Hebrew, just like a Lebanese Arab can understand sufficiently a Turkish Arab, you say you can speak both Aramaic and Hebrew but you say they are different, thats because you are talking about "MODERN" Hebrew, not "ANCIENT" Hebrew. Just like my Greek friend today can't understand ancient Greek, you see!!! You say Paul was a fluent Aramaic speaker, well my example in Acts says Paul spoke to them in the "HEBREW" language, correct? <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> ACTS 22:2, again- the "HEBREW" language is what "LUKE" wrote, AND HE KNOWS BETTER THAN YOU MR Burning one!!! <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh --> What you are calling Aramaic, is actually a dialect of Hebrew my friend, just as all Arab languages are filtered down derivatives of Aramaic, it might have changed a bit from place to place, but technically, and essentially, they are Hebrew dialects, if you want to get technical about it. I'm the only one who seems to have my facts straight here.

Remember Burning one, there is just as many discrepancies in the different Aramaic families of texts, as there are in the Greek, so you people don't have any foot to stand on for a claim of superiority. Just as in the Byzantine Greek majority texts all agree 99%, and Textus Receptus texts agree 98%, so what! That doesn't establish anything does it, and especially not as an argument for saying the Aramaic is superior because they have agreement between one line of texts.
Where in Greece today do you find any Aramaic texts, Burning one, tell me! <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> Where exactly, there are none, all the churches have Greek texts, if they had been given Aramaic texts back then they would have at least preserved some of them for future generations, but they wouldn't have been able to read it at the time, because they spoke GREEK, and 99% of people in GREECE, spoke GREEK, GET IT! <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> All the Aramaic texts are in the eastern provinces where thy did speak Aramaic, thats why they have Aramaic texts. But Paul didn't write to Armenia did he! No! He wrote to Ephesus, Galatia, Corinth, Colossae etc, do you get it??????? Paul didn't write to converted Jews who spoke the National language of Greece (which was GREEK by the way in case you haven't caught on yet), he wrote to converted GENTILE GREEKS, WHO SPOKE GREEK, among whom a few of them were Jews whose main language guessed it...GREEEEEEEK! Have you caught on yet. Hip Hip Horraaah, has it registered in your synapses yet??? WHOA!!! <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->

You claim Mr Panins work is not sound, oh ok, and where exactly did you get you professors degree in mathematics sir. I have said it once and i'll say it again, for your benefit, just in case the you might get it this time. The FINAL presented text of Mr Panin has been independently verified through showing the formulas in the text as being in the odds of trillions to one! Which means it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> that man put the Panin text together, GOD DID!!! Seeing as you appear to need it spelled out for you, do i need to repeat that for you, not only that, but i know the Greek texts better than i know my own nose, Mr Panin has confirmed "through" his brilliant mathematical formulas of 50 years, i better say that again there's some dull of hearing around here, 50 YEARS research, exactly what i knew about the texts for decades, and it is most definitely perfect: "come home Burning one" God has now finally given us the Perfect Greek text, its there for you, so you don't have to deal with all the misconstrued translations and double triple meanings in the second hand Aramaic anymore. <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: -->

Did Paul not say at the end of some of his letters, "written by the hand of, ME, Paul" Well Paul didn't write to Armenians or Eastern Orthodox did he? He wrote to GREEK GENTILES, AND ANY FEW OF THE CONVERTED JEWS AMONG THEM WHO ALSO SPOKE GREEK, in addition to that, not all Jews necessarily spoke Aramaic you know Burning one. You've brainwashed yourself with rhetoric from Aramaic primacy theorists. Don't you think i already extensively investigated the claims of Aramaic primacy before i committed to translating the Greek New Testament for the last 7 years. Its a fallacy mate, come home, Gods calling you back to his beloved text written by Paul's very own hand. Your prayers have been answered brother, just download the text if you haven't already. The perfect original word of the Lord is waiting for you when your ready to come home.

One last thing Burning one, are you not aware that the Jews were using the Greek Septuagint in their synagogues? Do i have to explain to you why? <!-- s:eh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eh.gif" alt=":eh:" title="Eh" /><!-- s:eh: -->

I am fluent in modern Greek, an "expert" in ancient Greek, fluent in Egyptian, Iranian, and Lebanese Arabic. In addition to that In fact, i'm more fluent in "ANCIENT ARAMAIC" than i am in English.

My natural male parent (My real Father Yehawah is in Heaven) Is an ultra orthodox Jewish historian and Rabbi, and my mother is Danish-Maori. I was born in Denmark and we moved to New Zealand when i was 3 years old, and i have been in Australia since i was 16, i am now 40.

Father Yehawah and Yeshua be praised unto the ages of the eons. <!-- sConfusedigh: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sigh.gif" alt="Confusedigh:" title="Sigh" /><!-- sConfusedigh: -->

Messages In This Thread
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-10-2012, 03:52 PM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-11-2012, 10:42 PM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-12-2012, 01:29 PM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-14-2012, 07:31 PM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-15-2012, 07:23 AM
Re: A Freakishly Simple Primacy Proof - by Zardak - 01-16-2012, 01:14 AM

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