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How does the AENT 4th edition compare to the others?
#1
I only have the AENT's 1st edition (or had, I should say as I left it at my parents house long ago), but I remember the typos and errors were numerous. The research and information put into it, though, are what made it golden, in spite of these little things. I remember even up to the 3rd edition, somebody pointed out a particular mistake. Have most or all typos and errors been fixed in the 4th edition?


And can somebody PLEASE tell me in Matthew 22:43-46 what the LORDS and lords are? I remember in my first edition of AENT if one were to read Matthew 22:43-46, it would appear as though Andrew mixed up the YAHWEHs and masters, it just didnt sound right reading it. I wish I had the Bible on me to explain, but can anybody tell me from the original aramaic how Matthew 22:43-46 reads?
#2
As far as I've observed, there were few changes between the 3rd and 4th edition (besides the change of Aramaic script). His rendering is in accordance with the available Aramaic witnesses... I suggest a prior reading without the alef at the end of marya, which would make it read mari: 'my master.'
#3
Here is an option for making these verses coherent using only the allowable grammatical variance of "definite" vs "indefinite" in the emphatic noun (mor:yo-). One definite vs. two indefinites.

Saying to-them, "And-howbeit David, in-spirit, calling to-him a-lord? Saying thus, 'Said the-Lord to-my-lord, "Sit to-thee from my-right, until of-I-to-set thy-foes under thy-feet."' If hence David calling to-him a-lord, howbeit his-son he-be?"
#4
:

Seems to me that Y'shua was telling the religious leaders there that day that He was not only the natural decendant of King Dawid...but also his Master.... <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

The same one that David speaks of in many places...concerning the Messiah.

The Hebrew text reads thus: YHWH says, "Adon, sit at My right until I make your enemies a stool for your feet." Psalm 110:1

BUT...this is from the Masoretic text of about 1000 A.D.

Could someone please post the passage of Psalms 110:1 in the Peshitta, perhaps it would line up better with what is found qouted below in Matthew 22:43-46 then what I find in the Hebrew text of today.

Here is the Matthew passage in the 1st edition of the AENT:

"He said to them, "How then did Dawid in the spirit call him Master YHWH? For he said, "that Master YHWH said to my master, "You sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.'" Therefore if Dawid calls him Master YHWH, how is he his son?"

To me that is a bit confusing the way it is worded/translated into English.

I would think that the "master" in the verse above should have a Capital M...and I think that it makes more sense if when The Messiah said "How then did Dawid in the spirit call him Master YHWH?...it is refering to the second mention of "Master", not the 1st mention...but that would not make the point... Right? If He were trying to convey that He was Master YHWH...incarnate.

Am I mistaken in this?


Blessings,
Chuck
#5
You can read it online at
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/ot/Psalms.pdf">http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/ot/Psalms.pdf</a><!-- m -->

It seems that psalms 110:1 in Aramaic is a lot longer than the MT one.???
#6
Could the verse in Matthew 22:44 read this way in English translation of the Aramaic....and be a legitimate translation?

"Master YHWH, my Master YHWH said, 'You sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.' "

Also in camparing the parallel passages in Mark and Luke...we can see that the Matthew passage is not translated correctly in the AENT.

Matthew passage: "He said to them, "How then did Dawid in the spirit call him Master YHWH? For he said, "that Master YHWH said to my master, "You sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.'" Therefore if Dawid calls him Master YHWH, how is he his son?" Matthew 22:43-45 -The AENT 1st edition

Mark Passage: ..."How do you say that the Mashiyach is the son of Dawid? For Dawid spoke by the Ruach haKodesh, 'The YHWH said to my master, "Sit on my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet like a footstool.' " Mark 12:35b-37 -The AENT 1st edition

Luke Passage: ..."How is it that the scribes concerning the Mashiyach that he is the Son of Dawid, And Dawid said in the book of the Psalms, 'Said Master YHWH to my (human) Master, 'sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.' " Therefore Dawid calls him 'my (human) Master', how is it that he is his son"? Luke 20:41b-44 -The AENT 1st edition

In an attempt there by the translator, it seems he is trying to clear the water so to speak...but it just gets more muddy...putting (human) in the Luke passage to convey the meaning that it is not Master YHWH that is in view in the second occurance...but Yeshua seems to be teaching there that it is Master YHWH, and not a mere human master or now, with caps "Master". Why is this passage in Luke getting the caps for "Master", where the other two get the small "m" for master???

So far...this is a mess...hopefully the 4th edition has cleared the waters good enough to drink from.

In the book of Acts...where it really ties it altogether, and reveals who the Messiah IS. --->GOD, manifested in flesh, in the Person of Yeshua of Nazareth.

Acts Passage: 'Master YHWH said to my Master, sit (yourself) at my right hand. Until I place your enemies (as) a footstool for your feet.' Truly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know the Elohim has made this Y'shua the Mashiyach whom you executed on a stake both Master YHWH and Mashiyach." Acts 2:34b-37 -The AENT 1st edition

This really says it then...and interprets the other passages and the Messiah's meaning, when he taught the scribes that day...and we should learn what it means as well.

And it is this: That Yeshua IS Master YHWH in flesh. Being both GOD & Man...at the same time... not just GOD in Man...but GOD & MAN UNITED as ONE...being GOD, The WORD/MILTHA/LOGOS, which proceded forth FROM THE FATHER, being OF His own BEING & Substance...not created not made as are the creatures of created matter...and the Holy Man/Human, which was born/conceived by The Holy Spirit of GOD in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

Glory to God.

I need to get the 4th editon of The AENT...and hope that these passages are now rendered correctly...because as they stand in the 1st edition...it is both misleading and just bad translation work.

And I have to add this...which I don't like to, but I am seeing in the notes there for the Acts 2:36..note #27, that Andrew, is teaching that Yeshua qualified himself to become the Messiah by his total obedieance to Torah in that it "contributed" to his being such. Now I may be reading that note the wrong way???...but that is incorrect teaching.

Because ---> Y'eshua WAS/IS the Messiah from conception in the womb of Humanity...BEFORE, in His Humanity, He ever read Torah!!!

He was, at the moment of conception by the Holy Spirit of YHWH in the womb of Mary, THE MESSIAH.

Both Holy GOD & Holy Man in ONE Person.... Two natures, Two Qnume...Being both ONE GOD, & ONE SON...UNITED IN ONE Human Personality. THE MESSIAH.

Not that Holy GOD was changed into Holy Man...or that Holy Man was changed into Holy GOD...but that They two became ONE in Holy Union...ONE Spirit/Flesh... ONE Messiah, who is both GOD & Man at the same time...Just as the Husband is to the Wife...TWO yet ONE.

And as Eve was taken FROM Adam...being OF his own substance...GOD The WORD/MILTHA/LOGOS, comes FROM the midst of THE FATHER, as Adam was the Source of Eve...not another lump...but OF his lump of clay.

MANKIND is thus created IN THE IMAGE OF GOD....THE FATHER & THE SON....and it is THEIR HOLY SPIRIT, which Indwells His Temple/People.

"Yeshua answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him." John 14:23


Glory to God.


"
#7
Yea...that is an Aramaic Targum...and is why its longer than the Masoretic above it in the single line...with the English there being the KJV translation of the Masoretic text...I guess I can go look up the translation of the Targum to see how it reads...but am hoping someone can show the literal Aramaic Peshitta text to see if Mar-Yah is in both instances Mar-Yah and My Mar-Yah...in the verse in Psalms 110:1...or must it be rendered "Mar-Yah" and "My Master" for the second occurance. It seems to me, unless I just don't understand right...that it could be Mar-Yah (Master YHWH) in both instances.

"Master YHWH, My Master YHWH, said: 'You sit at my right, until I make your enemies a stool for your feet.' "

Is this translation passible?

We know that The WORD IS GOD=Master YHWH...and this is HIM speaking as The WORD, concerning HIS incarnation as The Messiah, who IS Holy YHWH & Holy Man UNITED as ONE... And so Yeshua, The Word/GOD, was telling the scribes that day WHO He really was/is.

Blessings,
Chuck
#8
As I said before, perhaps a little unclear was I that his rendering of Matthew 22:44 is a literal rendering of the Aramaic, translating Marya as Master YHWH, as is his custom.
As far as I see it, there is nothing to do but to call it a misreading by the addition of the alef...
But an error was caught here that is an actual mistranslation along similar lines: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2660">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2660</a><!-- l -->
#9
Aaron,

So...Marya can mean "Master YHWH" OR simply "Master" depending upon the Context? If so, then I would hope that its just a case of mis-judgment here and not from a bias of doctrine that the translation is in error.

Has this been fixed in the new version?
#10
I just checked the Latin Vulgate of 400 A.D. for the Psalm 110:1 passage. It has:

"dixit Dominus Domino meo sede a dextris meis donec"
Said the Lord Lord my sit by right my until

Here is a posible translation:

Said The Lord, my Lord: Sit by my right, until....
#11
Thirdwoe Wrote:Aaron,

So...Marya can mean "Master YHWH" OR simply "Master" depending upon the Context? If so, then I would hope that its just a case of mis-judgment here and not from a bias of doctrine that the translation is in error.

Has this been fixed in the new version?

Marya is always rendered by Roth as Master YHWH...
If we're going to assume that every letter of the Peshitta is 100% transmitted correctly, then we have to come to a conclusion that marya is contextual in meaning (which is hardly the case), or that Matthew made a mistake (a feasible explanation). But if not, then we can say that the alef was accidentally added in later. In any case, it's unreasonable to suggest that it's the correct reading, because of context and parallel witnesses with the proper reading.

There is one other instance of a mistaken reading in the Peshitta regarding Master. In Acts 10:36: it would read better without the yud, reading 'Master of all' instead of 'Master YHWH of all.'
In both of these cases, some intuition needs to be applied to discern the proper reading. I hope this explains what I've been trying to say. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

There are 2 ways that Roth could address it:
  1. Leave it as is for a faithful rendering of the Peshitta as we know it
  2. Provide a critical rendering with a footnote with the variation
I would opt for the latter, and it seems you would also.
#12
Thirdwoe Wrote:Could the verse in Matthew 22:44 read this way in English translation of the Aramaic....and be a legitimate translation?
"Master YHWH, my Master YHWH said, 'You sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.' "
"
No, it reads more-or-less the way I posted it earlier. The problem is not the way Matthew wrote it, or how the Peshitta copyists copied it. The problem is the translation that you are attempting to force into it.
#13
:

I am not trying to force anything into it Jerry...just trying to understand it in its context and the parallel passages that speak of the same thing.

Yeshua said, as recorded in the Acts passage that Dawid called Him "Marya" and The AENT has it as "Master YHWH" rather than simply "Master" or as you have it "a master".

As Aaron points out, Brother Roth always goes with "Master YHWH" for "Marya".

So, Jerry... Is Yeshua saying there to the scribes...that Dawid called the Messiah "by the Holy Spirit" Master YHWH...or was it just "Master" or "a master" as Brother Roth interprets a (human) master...?

What is it that Yeshua is saying there?

It looks to me that after considering all the other verses that show this passage...that Yeshua is teaching that Dawid was inspired to say that The Messiah IS YHWH, not just a regular human master.

Blessings.
#14
:

Also Jerry,

I have taken the passage in Acts 2...and applied the same translation you gave for the other passage...and it reads thus in the AENT, if you were its translator rather than Andrew:

?The Lord said to my lord, sit (yourself) at my right hand. Until I place your enemies (as) a footstool for your feet.' Truly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know the Elohim has made this Y'shua the Mashiyach whom you executed on a stake both a lord and Mashiyach."

Is this the way that you say it is to be translated?

If so...then how is it, that in one instance you would translate Marya as "The Lord" in the 1st section of the verse, and the same word Marya as "a lord" in the last section? Are they not the same word? Then you would be making an interpretation rather than a translation for that verse...if you would translate it that way. Would that not be "forcing" your understanding into the verse?

Could you be kind enough to give what you believe is the more correct rendering in English from the Peshitta of Acts 2:34-36

Blessings,
Chuck
#15
Thirdwoe, the Aramaic does not distinguish between "indefinite" and "definite" nouns, as English does; so "a" vs. "the" is determined by context. So it is not some unique thing I am doing only for Matthew 22, but something that is done throughout the NT, with almost all singular emphatic nouns.

(mala-ko-) "an-angel" or "the-angel"
(n:biyo-) "a-prophet" or "the-prophet"
(tal:miy:do-) "a-disciple" or "the-disciple"
(mor:yo-) "a-lord" or "the-lord"

Just paraphrasing here, but if you see a verse that reads something like the following, only one Aramaic word (mala-ko-) is used for both "an-angel" and "the-angel".

An-angel appeared to Joseph and told him to go to Egypt, then Joseph did as the-angel said.

I share your concern that an "interpretation" needs to be made between "a" vs "the" on Aramaic emphatic nouns, but basic English custom allows us to make the correct determination in most cases. For example, I think nearly everyone would make the same determination as I did above with the "angel" example.


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