John 1:16 - grace in place of grace already given?

[borota]

It seems like this verse is translated in as many ways as there are translations out there.
ESV says 'grace upon grace', which theologically seems to make more sense to me.
Interlinear NT on this site says 'grace on account of grace' which as a non-native English speaker, doesn't say much to me (I don't understand the phrase).

The proper understanding of this verse might be important.
NIV family of translations would imply that the grace that came through Jesus completely replaced the grace that came through Moses.
While ESV would imply that the grace that came through Jesus increased the grace that was already received through Moses.
Is Aramaic of more help here? What 'grace on account of grace' would mean?

[Aaron S]

The Aramaic and Greek texts seem to agree in meaning. The meaning being 'grace for grace' where 'for' in Greek is anti, meaning, as per Strong's G473, "over against, opposite to, before, for, instead of, in place of, because, wherefore, for this cause" (which sounds a lot like "on account of") and the Aramaic is ch'laf meaning, as per Strong's H2498, "to slide by, i.e. (by implication) to hasten away, pass on, spring up, pierce or change: abolish, alter, change, cut off, go on forward, grow up, be over, pass (away, on, through), renew, sprout, strike through" (and by implication "on account of"). I'm not sure if this helps.

[borota]

It does, thanks.
At least I realize this is not a text to build a whole doctrine from. Because it can have any of the meanings found in various translations.

[Aaron S]

Just a note to add to it is that not to say that all of the given meanings of the word work in context. Indeed it is a likely scenario that the word can mean one or two things which can be discerned by someone with a good understanding of the workings of the respective languages. I don't think it's a matter of one rendering against another in this particular case but rather understanding what is meant by "grace upon grace" or "grace on account of grace," as both of these are rather cryptic.

[IPOstapyuk]

Grace has many meanings, therefore I would not use grace at all but
something as more narrow.
Aramaic "taybuta" for me means something undeserved, just a gift which could be a mercy too like forgiveness of sins due to unconditional decision of forgiver.
Therefore, wordily it sounds like "new gift that replaced the former gift".

[PM Saunders]

I can understand the confusion concerning this verse. I apologize but I went to one of my favorite greek version for this verse.

The NET bible has this reading:

John 1:16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another.

The AENT 4th has this:

And from his fullness we all have received grace on account of grace.

and the version put out by Paul Younan:

16. And from his fullness we all have received and grace on account of grace.

None of these versions give me the impression of replacing anything... but adding onto what is there.

And while the NET may not be a "literal" reading, I think it actually makes sense when thinking of the literal "grace upon grace" or as some have it, "favor upon favor". So here I prefer the NET reading for its clarification. If I ever have to use a different version (preferring the AENT) "grace upon grace" or "grace on account of grace" now makes prefect sense to me.

Some commentaries I have read suggest it can be summarized "an abundance of grace" which also makes sense without invalidating what I said above.

It is like "Here is some grace. Oh heck, have even more grace."
You know what I am saying? Grace upon grace. <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="" title="Happy" /><!-- s -->

[PM Saunders]

My translation has that meaning <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s --> Like a pile of grace, but it is Dutch <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->

I like that! "A pile of grace". <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->