01-13-2011, 03:48 AM
there is a lot of diversity in the possible interpretation of texts. Yet, i do not agree with your interpretation, not because it is wrong in itself, but because it lacks harmony with the rest of the bible. You said God said in exodus we cannot see him. That is not true. He said no one can see him and live, but that does not mean it is impossible, it simply means it's quite bad for your health (Moses did still see his back after that). John DID however say that God cannot be seen at all, and has never been seen, neither by Hagar (Gen 16:7-13), nor by Abraham (Gen 18-19:1), Jacob (Genesis 32:28+Hosea 12:3-5), Moses (Exodus 33:11), Joshua (Joshua 5:13-6:2), Gideon (Judges 6:11-23), Manoah (Judges 13:2-22), Isaiah (Isaiah 6:5), Job (Job 42:5). None of these saw God, yet they saw him. Look at these NT verses:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.")
Now, what did those people see? The answer is simple, yet they saw him:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Some more:
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And the conterpart:
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Heb 1:3 Who [Jesus] being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
In the Bible, it is quite clear: The omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal God is not only sovereign, but also inpercievable and inexperiencable to creation in any way. God can't be seen, heard, felt, smelled, thought of, etc.
However, because God wanted to communicate with his creation, he deviced revelations that can be percieved by creation. Some are reserved to the domain of the angels (that one also came down to Sinai and talked to Moses) whereas others are specifically aimed at humans, usually serving a specific purpose (in a way, any kind of divine intervention is a revelation of a small aspect of his being), like the bush, the LORD of heaven on Sinai, the Angel of the LORD, the man that appeared to Abraham, fire, smoke, a cloud, living water, light, love, YHWH, etc.
So, God, in the OT, revealed himself in many ways, at many occasions. Yet, all of these revelations were lacking some of the feats of the human domain. Thus the communication between God and men was somewhat imperfect. To have more effective communication with humans, God had to reveal himself in a revelation that encompasses all of the complexities of the human race. He needed a compatible interface, a mediator. A perfect interface to interact with humans is a human. This is who Jesus is. That is why the Bible says:
Heb 1:1-4 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Now, this Jesus was a man in every sense of the word, including the limitations, else he could not be an effective mediator. This is what incarnation is all about. But, since his purpose was to communicate the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal creator, he is also the highest revelation of that God, in the best possible and most effective way to the human domain. That is why he can be both servant and master, lamb and lion, God and man, saviour and sacrifice. In Jesus, we find not only the revelation of the one beyond creation, but also the perfect revelation in creation.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
That is why Christ can be both brother and father. If he only revealed himself as sovereign, we could not connect to him, and only fear him. If he only revealed himself as servant, we could not know his endless mercy and power. That is why in Christ we find not only God in sovereignty, but also God with us. His behaviour as a human is an example of what happens to a human when God dwells within him. His behaviour as God is an example of his love and mercy.
Now, there is a lot more to it, but this is an outline that you will feell continuously confirmed throughout the Bible. It is impossible to refute.
Jesus is Yahweh:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Mar 11:9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: (Ps. 118:26)
Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Is. 40:3-5)
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Is. 53:1)
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Joel 2:32) ->Yahweh
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ->Jesus
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Jesus is Father:
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is God:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Joh 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, from among whom Christ appeared in the flesh, who is God over all, to whom are due praises and thanksgiving, for ever and ever. Amen.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Joh 1:1+14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jesus is Lord:
1Corinthians 12:3 - Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Php 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
To sum it up. Jesus is the highest revelation of God humans will ever beable to percieve.
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.")
Now, what did those people see? The answer is simple, yet they saw him:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Some more:
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And the conterpart:
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Heb 1:3 Who [Jesus] being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
In the Bible, it is quite clear: The omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal God is not only sovereign, but also inpercievable and inexperiencable to creation in any way. God can't be seen, heard, felt, smelled, thought of, etc.
However, because God wanted to communicate with his creation, he deviced revelations that can be percieved by creation. Some are reserved to the domain of the angels (that one also came down to Sinai and talked to Moses) whereas others are specifically aimed at humans, usually serving a specific purpose (in a way, any kind of divine intervention is a revelation of a small aspect of his being), like the bush, the LORD of heaven on Sinai, the Angel of the LORD, the man that appeared to Abraham, fire, smoke, a cloud, living water, light, love, YHWH, etc.
So, God, in the OT, revealed himself in many ways, at many occasions. Yet, all of these revelations were lacking some of the feats of the human domain. Thus the communication between God and men was somewhat imperfect. To have more effective communication with humans, God had to reveal himself in a revelation that encompasses all of the complexities of the human race. He needed a compatible interface, a mediator. A perfect interface to interact with humans is a human. This is who Jesus is. That is why the Bible says:
Heb 1:1-4 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Now, this Jesus was a man in every sense of the word, including the limitations, else he could not be an effective mediator. This is what incarnation is all about. But, since his purpose was to communicate the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, eternal creator, he is also the highest revelation of that God, in the best possible and most effective way to the human domain. That is why he can be both servant and master, lamb and lion, God and man, saviour and sacrifice. In Jesus, we find not only the revelation of the one beyond creation, but also the perfect revelation in creation.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
That is why Christ can be both brother and father. If he only revealed himself as sovereign, we could not connect to him, and only fear him. If he only revealed himself as servant, we could not know his endless mercy and power. That is why in Christ we find not only God in sovereignty, but also God with us. His behaviour as a human is an example of what happens to a human when God dwells within him. His behaviour as God is an example of his love and mercy.
Now, there is a lot more to it, but this is an outline that you will feell continuously confirmed throughout the Bible. It is impossible to refute.
Jesus is Yahweh:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Mar 11:9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: (Ps. 118:26)
Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Is. 40:3-5)
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Is. 53:1)
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Joel 2:32) ->Yahweh
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ->Jesus
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Jesus is Father:
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is God:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Joh 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, from among whom Christ appeared in the flesh, who is God over all, to whom are due praises and thanksgiving, for ever and ever. Amen.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Joh 1:1+14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jesus is Lord:
1Corinthians 12:3 - Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Php 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
To sum it up. Jesus is the highest revelation of God humans will ever beable to percieve.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.